Most efficient .22 center fire

Wallie said:
I guess it depends how heavily the OP weighs his economy of scale… dollar for dollar I could make 4:1 or 5:1 223AI vs a BRA, with off the shelf components.
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I can put 10 times more firings on the BRA brass than the .223 brass... and have significantly more accuracy/precision and higher performance even at extremely low mild loads... which leads to much longer barrel life.

So, no... my statement stands.



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budlight said:
As a kid I shot a 26 inch 22-250. I got over my days of barrel burner bragging rights shooting long ago and I got into practicality and common sense. :) I got into match grade ar15's. I don't have any experience with a 223AI. because my research showed that the case only gained about 2 grains of powder. I'm not sure that right in the burn rate chart if there is powder to take advantage of this minor volume change. I generally load with CFE223 and power pro 2000 -mr. Right up at 5.56 pressures around 60,000 psi using rifle and rifle +2 inch gas tube holes on piston guns

In 2022 I bought a 224 Valkyrie because the 223 IMO is limited to 75 grain bullets. Because the neck is too short and the magazine length limits you on COL. Also 223 Rem heavies become horribly slow out of even out of 20 and 24 inch barrels. I actually only use 62 and 69 grain because I perfected them over time in my 223 stuff. RMR sells .223 69 hpBT for about 14 cents each these days for 1000.

Cheap fun shooting like my Wyoming PD shooting where I go through 300 rounds per day I use cheap bulk bullets 55 or 62gr hpbt out of a 223. But I always bring along my trusty 224 valkyrie 24 inch AR loaded with 75 gr match bullets

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

223 Rem Guide for .223 Remington reloading, 223 Rem accuracy, .223 Rem hunting, 223 AI and 5.56x45 rifles. 223 Remington Brass, 22 bullets, powder, primers and loading dies for .223 Remington. Ballistics drop chart for .223 Rem, .223 Ackley AI, 2-250. 223 Remington Black rifle, service rifle...
www.6mmbr.com


www.fieldandstream.com

224 Valkyrie vs 223 Remington

The 223 is hard to beat, but when it comes to the 224 Valkyrie vs the 223 Rem., which of these cartridges is better?
www.fieldandstream.com www.fieldandstream.com
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Like Bud Light, I like the Valkyrie. I find it fun to shoot and relatively forgiving when it comes to light breezes. Is it a pain in the backside to load for, perhaps but I find that as a challenge I choose to accept.
 
orkan said:
I can put 10 times more firings on the BRA brass than the .223 brass... and have significantly more accuracy/precision and higher performance even at extremely low mild loads... which leads to much longer barrel life.

So, no... my statement stands.



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Click to expand...
Interesting… I'm very curious what do you get for barrel life on your 22 BRA barrels, Greg?
Not sure how apples to apples barrel life comparisons can be… I run pretty hot temps, longer strings of fire, when things things get hot and heavy in prairie dog towns…
But I can count on 3k rounds of sub quarter (usually low .2xx's) of barrel life without HbN coated and 4k to 4.5k of accurate barrel life with HbN coated projectiles.
This is with 53g vmax going 3540fps over 29.6gr of CFE223 loaded on a progressive.

I would think you run mostly heavier projectiles? And probably mostly single base stick powders? Both would count against you barrel life-wise vs my use I would imagine.
 
I don't really have an argument either way for the .223 or .22-250. Either is easily realoadable, and components, like all components, vary with availability. .223 uses less powder, and a small rifle primer. Military 5.56 brass is easily reworked to take standard primers. I know people who even use it for deer.
The .22-250, while using more powder and a large rifle primer, is also easily reloadable, easy on recoil, and very good on hogs, deer, or varmints. Factory loads for the .22-250 sometimes are hard to find in the right grain for what your rifle likes, but if you can find a supply of 55 grain in .224, you are set for either .223 or .22-250. Fortunately, that is the weight that both my .223 Savage and .22-250 Remington like. For me, it is a toss-up.
 
I shoot a ar15 in 223,match 24in. 75 gr tip at 3000 fps, 26 gr of ww760, cci450 primers, and get low .2 groups.love my 22-250AI, but found a equal in a 222ai mag. Even had 40 gr up to 4500fps only once,lol, just because I could.run 68hpbt at 3400, and 50gr at 3700.all in a TC 24in bullberry barrel.
 

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Wallie said:
Interesting… I'm very curious what do you get for barrel life on your 22 BRA barrels, Greg?
Not sure how apples to apples barrel life comparisons can be… I run pretty hot temps, longer strings of fire, when things things get hot and heavy in prairie dog towns…
But I can count on 3k rounds of sub quarter (usually low .2xx's) of barrel life without HbN coated and 4k to 4.5k of accurate barrel life with HbN coated projectiles.
This is with 53g vmax going 3540fps over 29.6gr of CFE223 loaded on a progressive.

I would think you run mostly heavier projectiles? And probably mostly single base stick powders? Both would count against you barrel life-wise vs my use I would imagine.
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Correct, I'm seeing very similar barrel life, with several thousand rounds of sub-1/4moa performance when using heavy bullets. The first round hit percentage in the dog town out here on the prairie is much much higher with .22cal bullets in the 75-80gr weight range than the light bullets. A 26" 22BRA running a 75 eldm at 3050fps is ultra mild, and can be shot to the cadence of 30+ rounds per minute before being allowed to cool, with no averse affects to precision, accuracy, or barrel longevity. At this speed, the brass is virtually indestructible and I have no idea how many firings it would actually take to ruin it. At 3150fps, brass life is diminished, but it's still usually good for well over 50-60 firings.

A .223 based case can not even remotely approach the same kind of efficiency, forgiveness, and longevity of the BRA platform.

... and I would know, because I once had a fleet of .223AI, .20-223AI, etc. etc. etc.

Not to say the .223 based stuff is bad. It's just when compared to the 22BRA... it's no contest.

Just to prove this isn't some sort of anti-.223 case bias... here's a video with one of my .20-223AI's from recent years. They are great. They just can't hang with the BRA's at all.




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Hydra6 said:
"component costs, brass availability and long range capability"

Components = 223
Brass Availability = 223
(Brass Quality = 22BR/22BRA/22GT/22Creedmoor)
Long Range Capability = 22BR/22BRA/22GT/22Creedmoor (depending on your definition of long range)

Cartridge Efficiency (most performance for powder burned) = 22BRA
Click to expand...
I tried to beat Orkan to the punch - 22BRA may be the answer.
 
Wallie said:
I use CFE223 for all of my 223AI loads now, but I've had good success with 8208XBR, AR Comp, shooters world Tactical, and Ramshot Tac.
It's nothing special really, 223 AI 26" 8 twist 6 groove barrel with .060" freebore ran in AICS magazines so the bullets don't take up much room in the case.
My 53gr vmax and 80g ELD-M loads both like about .015" off the lands, the vmax will crank all the way up to about 3650-3700 when the bullets start turning into grey puffs 50 yards out. I run them at about 3500fps just because it seems like a good compromise between performance and efficiency.
The 80g can go up to about 3200fps before I run out of case capacity (or rather compressing the powder that hard starts deforming the ojive) but they seem to like 3100 much better accuracy wise.
Probably the "secret sauce" is the HbN powder coating on all my projectiles. My family calls it my pixie dust. It's pretty easy to do, and seems to help. I get 4k rounds on a 223 barrel now with pixie dust where I only got about 3k before.

If you headspace an AI chamber to properly headspace regular 223 rounds the accuracy is superb while shooting vanilla brass (I don't call it fire forming, I just call it shooting!)
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Your observations of 53 grain Vmax bullets is just the opposite of mine. I shoot them out of 8 twist 22-250's and 8 twist 220 Swifts and have never had a one go puff in thin air at 50 yards! And I have cranked them above the 3650-3700 FPS threshold you indicated it has been happening to you. The only "puffs" that I have observed with the 8 twist 22-250's and Swifts (four different rifles with Mike Rock, two Brux and Douglas barrels) have been threefold. 1. When shooting at paper they puffed in the berm. 2. When shooting at prairie dogs or gophers they went puff when I missed the target. 3. When I hit the priaire dog of gopher, they puffed in the critter when they blew the snot out of them.

From what I have observed in many many years of using the 53 Vmaxes, I have to wonder if you got a bad batch of bullets?? But then, maybe I have been lucky and others have had the same experience as you.
 
buzby said:
It was a reply to a reply of my question about shooting factory loads. A 223ai chamber can shoot factory loads. So you don't "have to" fire form your brass to shoot loaded ammo. Yes the byproduct will be fire formed brass.
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I know AI chambers can shoot the parent case by design. I have AIs in .223, .260 and 7mm-08. It is still fire forming brass by definition.
 

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