I know you have a LA to work with, but if you only are shooting 100-200 max and you want lower recoil and 20-22" barrel.. why not just go with a SA caliber like .243, .260, 7-08 or 308 and have the barrel chambered to seat them out long so you pack in some extra powder.
Efficiency out of 22" barrel
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Absolutely. It's an extremely popular do-all rifle and is an excellent choice. But since it bores you, I see why you wouldn't want it. The WSMs do ok with short barrels but again, lose their luster as a 22" barrel still robs them of their true potential.
take a look at the 7mm Gibbs
https://www.loaddata.com/members/se...aliberid=47&header=7mm Caliber Reloading Data
Iclimb
Well-Known Member
Would like some thump to 600
Well have a 243. .260 on the LA is certainly in my mind, but if you do that I was looking more towards the .264 win mag. To get more out of the 140 berger. That's why I was wondering about the 22" barrel what would be more efficient and still pack some punch out to 600 yards. I'll be elk hunting and with a rifle now and would like some punch. I've exclusively archery hunted before this.
I will be sticking with a 22" barrel
benchracer
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More case capacity requires a longer barrel and slower powders to obtain a performance increase. That is especially true as bore size decreases.
A .264WM in a 22 inch barrel will give very little advantage,if any, over a .260. Even a .260 is really at its best in a longer barrel.
For the barrel length you specify, a full length magnum is a complete waste, the WSM's may work a bit better, and something based on a .308 or 30-06 case (or something of similar capacity) is likely to be ideal.
Go with something in a 7mm bore diameter or bigger. As you go larger in bore diameter, you will have less performance loss from a short barrel.
A .264WM in a 22 inch barrel will give very little advantage,if any, over a .260. Even a .260 is really at its best in a longer barrel.
For the barrel length you specify, a full length magnum is a complete waste, the WSM's may work a bit better, and something based on a .308 or 30-06 case (or something of similar capacity) is likely to be ideal.
Go with something in a 7mm bore diameter or bigger. As you go larger in bore diameter, you will have less performance loss from a short barrel.
Iclimb
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Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
Esp. a 264WM. Some people are getting good velocities with a 24" in .264, but I would not buy one less than 26" for my uses, I sure like mine. But a 24" is one thing, a 22" quite another, I wouldn't even consider that.
I would go with the 284, throated to take advantage of your action.
Iclimb
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sounds like it. Now all I have to decide for is .284 or. .280ai. If I do a 280 it will be in Ackley improved and I have to decide which throat to use. .280ai would be nice for factory load reasons. But the .284 has that certain early western big game feel to me.
.284 or .280ai?
is a 9 twist Enough to stabilize 180 gr. bergers?. The calculator says it should be. But may not be ideal, any real world experience's? I don't want it too fast for 168's
.338-06 has got me thinking but I prefer 7mm bc's
The 284 will allow you to seat those long 180s without impinging on case and still fit the magazine box.
If you decide to use the 284 be certain you won't have any feeding issues.
Lapua makes some fantastic 6.5-284 brass that can easily be necked up to 7mm. I am not fond of Norma 6.5-284. 284 win is strong but not very precise, would definitely want to neck turn them.
You KNOW the 280 won't have feeding issues but the sharper shouldered AI might. Again check before you make your move.
If you were to go with a 1 in 8.5 twist you would be able to shoot the upcoming 195 berger. This twist rate wouldn't cause any issues with a 168 berger.
IMO reamer specifications can make a big difference.
As for throating: I would make a dummy round to be sent to the reamer maker of your choice with specifications that you would like the bullet to be able to engage the rifling or how much freebore you would like.
The throat angle is another consideration. I use Pacific Tool and Gauge reamers. Dave Kiff and I talk this stuff through. Usually he recommends a 1 degree 30 min throat angle unless he has data to suggest otherwise. That angle has done well with several of my rifles shooting the finicky VLDs.
You might want to tighten up the neck dimension to a specification or even neck turn. You can discuss that with your reamer maker as well. I would consider a no turn neck if Lapua brass was to be used. Not sure about Nosler, never loaded for any.
I hope this thread has helped you.
Be sure to share with us the details of what you end up doing and how it performs so we can learn from you.
If you decide to use the 284 be certain you won't have any feeding issues.
Lapua makes some fantastic 6.5-284 brass that can easily be necked up to 7mm. I am not fond of Norma 6.5-284. 284 win is strong but not very precise, would definitely want to neck turn them.
You KNOW the 280 won't have feeding issues but the sharper shouldered AI might. Again check before you make your move.
If you were to go with a 1 in 8.5 twist you would be able to shoot the upcoming 195 berger. This twist rate wouldn't cause any issues with a 168 berger.
IMO reamer specifications can make a big difference.
As for throating: I would make a dummy round to be sent to the reamer maker of your choice with specifications that you would like the bullet to be able to engage the rifling or how much freebore you would like.
The throat angle is another consideration. I use Pacific Tool and Gauge reamers. Dave Kiff and I talk this stuff through. Usually he recommends a 1 degree 30 min throat angle unless he has data to suggest otherwise. That angle has done well with several of my rifles shooting the finicky VLDs.
You might want to tighten up the neck dimension to a specification or even neck turn. You can discuss that with your reamer maker as well. I would consider a no turn neck if Lapua brass was to be used. Not sure about Nosler, never loaded for any.
I hope this thread has helped you.
Be sure to share with us the details of what you end up doing and how it performs so we can learn from you.
benchracer
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The .280AI should have a bit more case capacity and a longer neck. If you want to mag feed, though, you will lose the case capacity advantage because you will have to seat those long 180's pretty deep.
The .284 will allow you to take full advantage of available case capacity and still feed from the magazine. Based on testing I have seen with the cartridge, RL-17 would be the go to powder here. A true 9 twist will do just fine for what you want.
As for the 338-06, the 7mm does not posess a B.C advantage, though it does posess a speed advantage using comparable b.c./sd bullets.
Load the 338-06 with 250g Berger Elite Hunters (B.C. .682) and you have a combination that carries quite a bit of smackdown to 600 yards. Load it with a 225g Cutting Edge (B.C. .640) and you will have a flat shooting, hard hitting combination that will be good to around 700 yards. The downside is, that to get this level of performance you will have to load to a COAL that will require single feeding of either round.
You also have the option to sacrifice B.C. and go for all out speed. You can load a 185g Barnes TTSX to 3000+ and still be good to around 600 yards. The Barnes bullet is short enough to magazine feed.
I am getting ready for a 338-280AI build. It will have a 26" barrel and I plan to use the above mentioned bullets. I expect it to be a very good combination in a carry weight rifle.
The .284 may be more your style, though. In the end, ya gotta go with your gut feelings about what will make you happy. You can study ballistic charts and load data all you want, but keeping the fun factor in the equation is just as important. Take the fun factor away and an enjoyable pastime starts to feel more like a chore.
The .284 will allow you to take full advantage of available case capacity and still feed from the magazine. Based on testing I have seen with the cartridge, RL-17 would be the go to powder here. A true 9 twist will do just fine for what you want.
As for the 338-06, the 7mm does not posess a B.C advantage, though it does posess a speed advantage using comparable b.c./sd bullets.
Load the 338-06 with 250g Berger Elite Hunters (B.C. .682) and you have a combination that carries quite a bit of smackdown to 600 yards. Load it with a 225g Cutting Edge (B.C. .640) and you will have a flat shooting, hard hitting combination that will be good to around 700 yards. The downside is, that to get this level of performance you will have to load to a COAL that will require single feeding of either round.
You also have the option to sacrifice B.C. and go for all out speed. You can load a 185g Barnes TTSX to 3000+ and still be good to around 600 yards. The Barnes bullet is short enough to magazine feed.
I am getting ready for a 338-280AI build. It will have a 26" barrel and I plan to use the above mentioned bullets. I expect it to be a very good combination in a carry weight rifle.
The .284 may be more your style, though. In the end, ya gotta go with your gut feelings about what will make you happy. You can study ballistic charts and load data all you want, but keeping the fun factor in the equation is just as important. Take the fun factor away and an enjoyable pastime starts to feel more like a chore.
Since your going with a 22" barrel you might consider doing the 280AI and reason I say that the advantage of the 284 is with a long barrel with the heavy bullet 180 and if Berger every gets the 195 gr made.
you might want to read this article
Record-Setting .284 Win F-Classer
Even with short barrel velocity would be a concern with the 280AI also.
My 280AI and 284 have 27" long barrels both on long actions.
I can't believe that somebody has not said what you are looking for is the 6.5X55 Swede.
Incredibly accurate, very light recoil, will reach about it's full potential in a 22" barrel and is in the 6.5 caliber you want with great barrel life.
It works well through your long action because you can load the bullet base out of the case capacity. You can load the 6.5X55 MUCH HOTTER in the Remington action than most loading data which is for the small ring Mauser type actions that limit pressure to 46000 CUP.
Incredibly accurate, very light recoil, will reach about it's full potential in a 22" barrel and is in the 6.5 caliber you want with great barrel life.
It works well through your long action because you can load the bullet base out of the case capacity. You can load the 6.5X55 MUCH HOTTER in the Remington action than most loading data which is for the small ring Mauser type actions that limit pressure to 46000 CUP.
