600yards and in, how important are bubble levels?

[bigngreen]

OK, I have a question about bubble levels on scopes when hunting. I have bought two levels and after mounting one, I looked at it sticking out from the scope and wondered how likely it was to get knocked out of alignment when being transported or carried while hunting.
I understand the value of one for benchrest shooting since the rifle is handled with "kid gloves" both in transporting and shooting.
But when hunting the handling can get a lot rougher. In fact on this site there are numerous comments about scopes being knocked around. Now I would be hanging a little 'lever' that if bumped will either break or will torque the scope.
Because of that worry, I took it off and now have two bubble levels taking up space in my gun room (aka wife's art room LOL).
Comments?

I've wiped out a couple and since it's critical to my shooting I keep an extra, I use the Holland's and just replace the bubble when I brake it. All my hunting rifles have a level, none of my bench rifles do, they are needed for cold bore shots not anything with sighters!!

 

[bigngreen]

I won't argue that a level can improve shooting or at least get you you familiar with what level really is. I don't use one under 400 yards when in the field. I keep thinking about Billy Dixon and that shot at Adobe Walls. I know he did not have a level. I'm not that good.

Many of those old long range rifles had levels in the front sight!! Mine do from that period.

 

[NMCOUES]

I was introduced to a level years ago when the agency I worked for replaced the scope on my issued rifle. The armorer wouldn't let me take it off until I used it for 3 days of training. So zero, work it out to 500 yards and qualify with it. Spent the next two days watching the tactical tracking team move across terrain as overwatch. The level was not a game changer but a tool to verify and adjust. I didn't like the idea of not being the very best with other people's lives on the line. It became another valuable tool as did the other items as they came along over 30 years. Do I need it out to 600 no, do I use it out to 600, everytime. I have one on my own rifles. I don't look at it I just see it as part of the process and adjust when needed.

 

[Buster Hemlock]

I've wiped out a couple and since it's critical to my shooting I keep an extra, I use the Holland's and just replace the bubble when I brake it. All my hunting rifles have a level, none of my bench rifles do, they are needed for cold bore shots not anything with sighters!!

Look at the levels from Accuracy First if you are running into durability issues. Also I think they are the best design and show the slightest movement versus a air bubble that can stick some.

 

[Andrew Massi]

OK, I have a question about bubble levels on scopes when hunting. I have bought two levels and after mounting one, I looked at it sticking out from the scope and wondered how likely it was to get knocked out of alignment when being transported or carried while hunting.
I understand the value of one for benchrest shooting since the rifle is handled with "kid gloves" both in transporting and shooting.
But when hunting the handling can get a lot rougher. In fact on this site there are numerous comments about scopes being knocked around. Now I would be hanging a little 'lever' that if bumped will either break or will torque the scope.
Because of that worry, I took it off and now have two bubble levels taking up space in my gun room (aka wife's art room LOL).
Comments?

If your going to use one get one milled into the scope base or ring top snag proof and if you break it your scopes trashed regardless

 

[Ol' Red]

Many of those old long range rifles had levels in the front sight!! Mine do from that period.

OK , I did not know that. Learning every day. I don't own firearms from that period. I read Mike Venturino articles a lot and find them interesting. So at best I would be an "armchair quarterback". Thanks for the info.

 

[bigngreen]

OK , I did not know that. Learning every day. I don't own firearms from that period. I read Mike Venturino articles a lot and find them interesting. So at best I would be an "armchair quarterback". Thanks for the info.

Ya, it's amazing just how much we have forgot then relearned about long range shooting. There are rifles outfitted for long range with ladder sights that have compensation for spin drift built in them, many things guys have had a hard time thinking it matters in the last ten years guns and shooter from 120+ years ago were already taking it into account!!

 

[ButterBean]

Ya, it's amazing just how much we have forgot then relearned about long range shooting. There are rifles outfitted for long range with ladder sights that have compensation for spin drift built in them, many things guys have had a hard time thinking it matters in the last ten years guns and shooter from 120+ years ago were already taking it into account!!

Thats freaking amazing

 

[bigngreen]

Look at the levels from Accuracy First if you are running into durability issues. Also I think they are the best design and show the slightest movement versus a air bubble that can stick some.

It's not a durability issue I just put everything I own to the test, one of those levels was dragging a bull over into a bowl and me, the elk and everything on me ended up in a pile in a rock slide.

 

[JTB]

I always use a level and have found, in the mountains, I am not as good at predicting level as I would like to be, no matter how much I practice. To add a visual, say our bullet has 90" of drop at 600 yards; we would need to aim 90" high in order to compensate for the drop. Now lay that rifle on its side (45 degree change from level) and you can see it will be impacting 90" to the left or right of the target and 90" low since you no longer have any elevation adjustment. When we divide 90" by 45 degrees it works out to 2" vertical movement for every degree off of level. If off only 5 degrees that would be 10" at 600 yards. You would need to enter your actual drop (likely closer to 75") but I find having a level for longer shots is worth the effort. Some of you may have an accurate internal level but I can easily be a few degrees off in mountainous terrain laying over rocks to get a shot off. If hunting coues deer, as previously mentioned, or smaller game leveling can be a critical step. Why guess?

 

[Dr. Richard Gray]

I just look at my reticle, muscle memory I guess

I hang a heavy weight on a fishing line and line the vertical up on it. Assuming you have a way to make certain the rifle is level. But when you get in the field is the rifle ever really level?

 

[oneeyejohn]

I try all the methods to get my scope level, String with plumb bob attached, level action, bases, rings and scope at the bench. But what about shooting at the target offhand, at the range on a bench, off a bypod, attached or on a stick? The level on the scope helped me think about level when actually shooting the rifle. I can not tell you how many times I had to correct my hold on the rifle after I instaled a bubble level on my scopes. They are a good tool for me to make me conscience to hold the rifle level all the time.

 

[C1Pro]

Nope, you are not the only one here that can't eyeball dead perfect when laying on a 30-degree side slope. You just don't have as much muscle memory as Butter Bean, or as much practice using your muscles as Butter Bean. It is not your fault. Go ahead and use that wonderful little invention. There is nothing wrong with new technology.

We are not talking about slope, we are talking about cant. So are you able to put 10 rounds within 5" at 1,000 yards?

 

[Treeslug]

We are not talking about slope, we are talking about cant. So are you able to put 10 rounds within 5" at 1,000 yards?

You are talking about cant. I was quoting another poster (days ago) that said something about not being able to be sure about his cant on a 30-degree slope. I have never said I could even see a 5" target at 1,000 yards. I shoot big magnum guns (rifles and pistols) but I have never shot at a 1,000 yard anything. I am here to learn and amuse.