600yards and in, how important are bubble levels?

[xsn10s]

I was one of the guys that got caught by a level. I didnt think i needed one, but after i got one i began disagreeing with it. I believed my eyes and not the level.

After researching ways to verify the level, plumb a scope etc., and multiple checks. Now i trust my level and assume my eyes are deceiving me.

As a machinist, with a point of reference, i could usually clock or align something within 2-3 degrees like buster stated. Sometimes a little better, sometimes much worse. This is in an environment where many things inside the machine were extremely straight or square.

My machine had a renishaw touch probe that would align my part off features i specified and then display the previous position and the difference. In that scenario, its very easy to quantify your individual ability.

I worked construction and would describe myself as a "machine operator" rather than a machinist. But I've always been amazed on what I could catch without the use of levels, optical comparators and so on. The human body and mind just can perceive so much without the need of such devices. But I also KNOW that I am fallible, I've made mistakes and will continue to do so. "Trust yet verify". I'll get a bubble level one of these days, it's been on my shopping list for far too long.

 

[bgbuck153]

I'd like take a stroll thru some houses on here to see how they're pictures hang since levels are the devil. A bubble on a rifle can only improve your shooting ability. Throw one on your rifle and sit down on a bench without looking at it and get all set up to pull the trigger then look at the bubble I bet you'd be surprised that more times than not your not naturally able to level your gun without the aid of a bubble. Now I'm not saying you'd be off by much while on the bench but now go lay sideways on the side of the mountain and see how you do.... I'd bet most chest pounders would be shocked too that claim they don't need a level.

 

[ButterBean]

I'd like take a stroll thru some houses on here to see how they're pictures hang since levels are the devil. A bubble on a rifle can only improve your shooting ability. Throw one on your rifle and sit down on a bench without looking at it and get all set up to pull the trigger then look at the bubble I bet you'd be surprised that more times than not your not naturally able to level your gun without the aid of a bubble. Now I'm not saying you'd be off by much while on the bench but now go lay sideways on the side of the mountain and see how you do.... I'd bet most chest pounders would be shocked too that claim they don't need a level.

Really .........No one said they are the devil and no one is pounding their chest, if you like a level by all means use one, I prefer not to,

 

[ButterBean]

I'd like take a stroll thru some houses on here to see how they're pictures hang since levels are the devil. A bubble on a rifle can only improve your shooting ability. Throw one on your rifle and sit down on a bench without looking at it and get all set up to pull the trigger then look at the bubble I bet you'd be surprised that more times than not your not naturally able to level your gun without the aid of a bubble. Now I'm not saying you'd be off by much while on the bench but now go lay sideways on the side of the mountain and see how you do.... I'd bet most chest pounders would be shocked too that claim they don't need a level.

And I've done both, Bench and the mountains

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I worked construction and would describe myself as a "machine operator" rather than a machinist. But I've always been amazed on what I could catch without the use of levels, optical comparators and so on. The human body and mind just can perceive so much without the need of such devices. But I also KNOW that I am fallible, I've made mistakes and will continue to do so. "Trust yet verify". I'll get a bubble level one of these days, it's been on my shopping list for far too long.

We had some guys who could get within 1 degree pretty consistently. Many who couldnt. Kind of a "know your own ability" kind of thing.

My abilities declined after I got the probe.

 

[snox801]

It's all seemed to be hashed out by now. But I can say at 600 no need for a levels I have them on my rigs just in case. Most shots 600 and in I never use it. If I'm going way out I will use it. But boy is it easy to forget to use it in the heat of the moment. I've hit a few pigs past 800 while not using it. So they are not a deal breaker but they can be very helpful.

 

[xsn10s]

We had some guys who could get within 1 degree pretty consistently. Many who couldnt. Kind of a "know your own ability" kind of thing.

My abilities declined after I got the probe.

I KNOW my eyes aren't what they used to be. I still shoot at small targets (under sub moa) out to 600 yards and animal size out to 800 yards. But like I said the eyes aren't what they used to be. I've never shot at big game at those distance, varmints yes, but no long shots at big game. I may need to if I hunt the areas around me now. I'd feel much better with a level and some trigger time using one.

 

[Bravo 4]

All I'm gonna say is take care in mounting as you can add error. That and guys look for an excuse to blame misses on. I have levels, do I always use them...eh

Bigeclipse- what size do you need? If a 30mm or 34mm I may have one I can send for you to try...Merry Christmas! Shoot me a PM.

 

[ButterBean]

All I'm gonna say is take care in mounting as you can add error. That and guys look for an excuse to blame misses on. I have levels, do I always use them...eh

Bigeclipse- what size do you need? If a 30mm or 34mm I may have one I can send for you to try...Merry Christmas! Shoot me a PM.

Very nice gesture

 

[emp1953]

As I got older I developed arthritis in my neck. It caused me to start to tilt my head to the right when I mounted my rifle. I put one of the Warne levels on my scope. Set it up with a string and plumb bob hanging from the house roof corner. It showed me how really bad things had become. Where I thought I was having an ammo or rifle problem with wandering shots at 300+ yds, I now don't have that problem, "if I remember to look at the level"

Warne Skyline Universal Bubble Level Anti-Cant Device 35mm Scope Matte

Precision long range shooting has grown in popularity over the last several years. New technology has allowed shooters to successfully engage targets at...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[emp1953]

How important is a bubble level for 600 yard shots? At what range do they really become necessary? Thanks!

Think of it this way. If you understand MOA measurements. 1 MOA at 100yds is about 1 inch (1.047 to be exact). At 200yds it is approximately 2" and so on. Canting your rifle is a rotational movement the scope rotating around an axis that you can put at the center of the cross hairs. As you cant the rifle it rotates the cross hairs "x" number of degrees. Just as the degrees multiply with MOA over distance, they multiply over distance with the scope rotation. Get the scope aligned plumb over the bore using some simple method, I like the string and plumb bob method. then add the level aligning it similarly. At 100 yards you would hardly have seen the difference anyway, at 200 and further out it makes a remarkable difference. I was from Missouri on this myself. You had to show me, and now I am a believer.

 

[Overbore 28]

Ever met anyone at the range who shoots a 3" group at 100 yds and says "good enough"? It's no coincidence they didn't have a bubble level. The bubble level wouldn't have made any difference in their shooting ability because in their mind it was already adequate. See any correlations to some of the opinions posted here???

 

[Toolhand]

It has become a part of my shooting routine even at 100 yards when sighting the rifle in. I do a lot of bow hunting also and it's the same thing get on target check the level squeeze off the shot. Literally can be checked in the blink of an eye. To each their own but it is just one less variable and another way to be as accurate as possible for me.

 

[ButterBean]

Ever met anyone at the range who shoots a 3" group at 100 yds and says "good enough"? It's no coincidence they didn't have a bubble level. The bubble level wouldn't have made any difference in their shooting ability because in their mind it was already adequate. See any correlations to some of the opinions posted here???

3" @ a hundred is awesome, That's about as good as I can shoot