600yards and in, how important are bubble levels?
- Thread starter Bigeclipse
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That's a great video and I didn't see a level on his rig
Bigeclipse
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So if I'm reading what you posted it only impacts drop a small amount but I'm not understanding the wind you are stating? What if there is no wind?
bigngreen
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Some guys in some terrain won't have much issues, I'm my terrain a good percentage of the time I'll set up close BUT every once in a while the terrain just throws it of and you almost have to talk yourself into believing the level. I don't hunt without one, you'll get caught at some point and it's an easily avoidable situation.
Ya you may be still minute of deer at 600 but to use that as an excuse is a little disappointing, as hunters on a precision shooting forum I would expect more of an attitude of making small gains to deliver an ever more precise shot, anything less than dead center through the cross hair means there is room to improve. IMO
Ya you may be still minute of deer at 600 but to use that as an excuse is a little disappointing, as hunters on a precision shooting forum I would expect more of an attitude of making small gains to deliver an ever more precise shot, anything less than dead center through the cross hair means there is room to improve. IMO
Buster Hemlock
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So I revised my previous post. That was with a 5 mph left to right wind and also spin drift. So what happens if we get rid of the 5 mph wind and spin drift too?
Cant Drop Wind
-2* -65.18" -3.09"
0* -65.23" 0"
+2 -65.18" 3.09"
Took it out an extra decimal to show that the 2 degrees left or right is causing minimal effects on your elevation but that .05" does go somewhere and it's creating 3" left or right at 600 yards. It's a trigonometry problem that thankfully apps/kestrels do really fast for us. Now think if you zero your gun off 2* at 100 and then line up for a shot and are -2* at 600. No wind, no spin drift, no aerodynamic jump.... oh my! If you really want to get into the weeds and understand all this stuff I'd recommend Bryan Litz's books available through Applied Ballistics.
Well, ,y 28Nosler needs about 200" of elevation at 1000, so if I lay my rifle on its side (90 degrees), I'll miss by 200" of windage. That works out to about 2" per degree. Pretty easy to be off 5 degrees and not know it, that would be 10" at 1000, or about 6" at 600.
Did you watch this video?
Why Every Rifle Needs an Anti Cant Bubble Level - YouTube
The bubble being just outside the lines causes a clean miss at 1000 on a very large plate.
I've done plenty of my own tests with my rifle, shooting in the areas I hunt, eyeballing it, vs using the level. Even with 25+ years of being a carpenter, I can not get it right at extended distances. Probably could do it if I had flat horizon to go off of, but in the high mountains, nothing is plumb or level, so using terrain for reference just doesn't work.
Thanks for the numbers Buster, eye opener.
Bigeclipse
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Thanks. Yeah I have noticed at 600 sometimes I get an impact which will group oddly left or right but elevation was decent and I was thinking it was trigger control but it could also be rifle cant. I guess the only way to be sure is to get a bubble level.
Yeah I watched the video, I also heard that Anna Nichole married for love, Colin Kaepernick signed with Green Bay and the election was fair and square, its an opinion, that's all it is, As I said in post 5 if you like it by all means use one, Now this is my opinion, if you cant get behind your rig and know that your not level regardless of the terrain that your in you probably shouldn't be hunting long distance, Once again I mean no offense and I know I'm old but in my military career I was lucky enough to go to some of the finest shooting schools and we shot a long ways for a long time with straight 10X scopes and no levels, I know times have changed and I'm all for it but the list of "Must Have's" if you wanna be accurate these days is comical to me, I don't know how anyone ever shot anything before Kestrels, Bubble Levels and Bore Scopes,Once again I apologize to the OP for all of this mess over a simple question, seems the norm anymore
Thank you again
Get one and see if it helps you out, It can't hurt a thing
Wolf76
Well-Known Member
In this sport, we spend some big money and time to add accuracy to our set ups. A bubble level is a rather inexpensive add on that adds consistency to every shot. In my mind, it's like using a great trigger vs a crappy factory trigger - free accuracy. I'm always looking for ways to make my guns better and more consistent without adding weight, complexity, or tons of cash to the equation. A bubble level is well under $100, adds a fraction of an ounce for weight, and is quickly available if needed or wanted. Not too long ago, people said they could eyeball distances just fine and didn't need range finders - this seems like a similar argument with regards to a bubble level.
"Can" you shoot without a bubble level is probably the wrong question. "Should I be adding error to my set up?" is likely the right question.
"Can" you shoot without a bubble level is probably the wrong question. "Should I be adding error to my set up?" is likely the right question.
xsn10s
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I've never used one and have shot out to 1200 yards on my rifles, and 1500 meters while in the Army. But that was on either large vehicle targets while in the Army, or steel/ rock targets on my own. Hardly very critical. I can admit and see the need while hitting paper or smaller targets/ game at extended distances. At the bare minimun it would help rule out any mistakes.
Canadian Bushman
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I was one of the guys that got caught by a level. I didnt think i needed one, but after i got one i began disagreeing with it. I believed my eyes and not the level.
After researching ways to verify the level, plumb a scope etc., and multiple checks. Now i trust my level and assume my eyes are deceiving me.
As a machinist, with a point of reference, i could usually clock or align something within 2-3 degrees like buster stated. Sometimes a little better, sometimes much worse. This is in an environment where many things inside the machine were extremely straight or square.
My machine had a renishaw touch probe that would align my part off features i specified and then display the previous position and the difference. In that scenario, its very easy to quantify your individual ability.
After researching ways to verify the level, plumb a scope etc., and multiple checks. Now i trust my level and assume my eyes are deceiving me.
As a machinist, with a point of reference, i could usually clock or align something within 2-3 degrees like buster stated. Sometimes a little better, sometimes much worse. This is in an environment where many things inside the machine were extremely straight or square.
My machine had a renishaw touch probe that would align my part off features i specified and then display the previous position and the difference. In that scenario, its very easy to quantify your individual ability.
