45-70 bullets for elk

[budlight]

Same here. Grew up hunting with a 12ga Remington 1100 as a kid shooting light field hybred exp. Those heavy slugs packed a huge punch on deer. I wish they were still available. That gun has a plastic butt too! My 30-06 with a sims is a piece of cake in comparison.

Now, shooting a metal crescent butt plate 45-90 with heavy smokeless loads... Yes that does hurt a little my more than my 12ga

Yes, that is much bigger than a 45-70 shooting low powered rounds made for the questionable strength guns.

When I first got my 458 win mag I bought a shooting vest with the padded shoulder and upper arm area. It could be worn under a coat for cold weather like Alaskan Brown Bear hunting. I max loaded 510 grain RNSP. Those rounds took out the African Big 5 on several loaners to friends safaris. They took videos of one shot DRT braining bull elephants. They were actually over kill on big bears.

When I was young I could shoot it maybe 20 times like at range and yes on more than one occasion it hurt me doing a quick shot and I would end up with a black and blue upper arm above my bicep. Sometimes things charge out of the scrub and you don't have time to set the rifle right! kinda like pheasant hunting with a 12 gauge and they jump up right in front of you. Startling you!

I've seen those rubber stock covers, maybe you should invest in one!

 

[Charles Keethler]

If you don't reload try Buffalo Bore , look at my avatar 2500 lb. buff , one shot 405 gr. sm/jacked, bullet aginst hide other side, 3 steps down. White tails 325 Hornady one and down. 2000 muzzle flp's on BB load, 2200 on Hornady.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

For something flatter (and fun) I've been shooting the Hornady 250gr pointy all copper bullet. I get 2,330 fps from my 18.5" Marlin barrel with good accuracy. It has worked well on whitetails and all bullets have exited. This particular load is rather accurate at 300yds but I limit shots to around 200yds. It shoots MUCH flatter than my usual 400gr load at 1,700 fps.

The 1" group below was shot at 200yds.

 

[Alibiiv]

I want to take my 45-70 1886 elk hunting next year and trying to find a good bullet to reload. I have shot pigs and whitetails with it with several bullets, and I'm not very happy with any of them so far. I tried 2 different 405g cast lead at reduced velocity. These punch half inch holes straight through with min to no blood trail. Other folks really like cast, maybe they'd expand more on an elk?? This year I switched to 300g Hornady hollow point at full power, which is much flatter shooting. I have seen very few deer act like they'd been electrocuted and expire so dramatically/quickly from a gunshot, but on cleaning, there was no exit wound. Entry was on center broadside at the back edge of the shoulder. I recovered fragments as far as the middle neck area. Can anyone recommend a bullet that acts like the Barnes ttsx in my 338? I want good penetration but also some expansion and a bloodtrail. I just bought 3 boxes of Barnes 300g TSX FB, which have a hollow point big enough to park my truck in. I'm not sure these will hold together or are even intended for heavy game.

Also, on searching this topic, I did find a couple similar threads from years back, mostly recommending the two kinds of bullets I've already tried. Several recommend Speer, but I haven't seen any in stock since I got the gun.

 

[Alibiiv]

I do not have any experience hunting elk so cannot help you with that aspect of this thread. But....we've been using the 300 grain Barnes TSX FB bullets in our 45-70s for black bear hunting for a few years now. Top notch performance, plenty of penetration and they do shoot cloverleafs in our rifles. With a load of 49.0gr of 4198 and sighted with a 50 yard zero, they shoot about 1 inch low at 100 yards and 11 inches low at 200 yards. As for penetration I shot a 200lb black bear with a broad side shot @ 50 yards. For whatever reason the bear hunched up, turned very slowly and started to walk away from where it was shot. After about 10 feet of walking the bear finally went down. But after it went down, it tried to get up, only to fall down again. The bear attempted a second time to get up, and...again the same thing happened and the bear fell down. I am saying to myself that I don't want to shoot you again, however I was also afraid this bear would get a second wind and take off like a rocket ship into some very dense cover that I preferred not to drag it out of. On the third attempt of the bear trying to get up, it's head was facing directly away from me, at which time I decided to spine the bear. The bullet hit in the center of the hind quarters and came out the nose of the bear, leaving an impressive exit hole. So...do these 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullets penetrate, yes at 50-60 yards they "do" penetrate. The photo is if a broadside shot exit hole of a 225lb black bear, @50-60 yards; 45-70, 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullet.

 

[wild_musk]

I do not have any experience hunting elk so cannot help you with that aspect of this thread. But....we've been using the 300 grain Barnes TSX FB bullets in our 45-70s for black bear hunting for a few years now. Top notch performance, plenty of penetration and they do shoot cloverleafs in our rifles. With a load of 49.0gr of 4198 and sighted with a 50 yard zero, they shoot about 1 inch low at 100 yards and 11 inches low at 200 yards. As for penetration I shot a 200lb black bear with a broad side shot @ 50 yards. For whatever reason the bear hunched up, turned very slowly and started to walk away from where it was shot. After about 10 feet of walking the bear finally went down. But after it went down, it tried to get up, only to fall down again. The bear attempted a second time to get up, and...again the same thing happened and the bear fell down. I am saying to myself that I don't want to shoot you again, however I was also afraid this bear would get a second wind and take off like a rocket ship into some very dense cover that I preferred not to drag it out of. On the third attempt of the bear trying to get up, it's head was facing directly away from me, at which time I decided to spine the bear. The bullet hit in the center of the hind quarters and came out the nose of the bear, leaving an impressive exit hole. So...do these 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullets penetrate, yes at 50-60 yards they "do" penetrate. The photo is if a broadside shot exit hole of a 225lb black bear, @50-60 yards; 45-70, 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullet.

Thanks for your input and load data. I have been using Varget because powder valley was out of 4198. It came back in stock this year but at 315 a keg plus shipping and haz...now that we're done with Christmas I need to order some.

 

[Tac-O]

I was wondering about those Barnes. The 250gr option might be a good one too.

 

[Tac-O]

I do not have any experience hunting elk so cannot help you with that aspect of this thread. But....we've been using the 300 grain Barnes TSX FB bullets in our 45-70s for black bear hunting for a few years now. Top notch performance, plenty of penetration and they do shoot cloverleafs in our rifles. With a load of 49.0gr of 4198 and sighted with a 50 yard zero, they shoot about 1 inch low at 100 yards and 11 inches low at 200 yards. As for penetration I shot a 200lb black bear with a broad side shot @ 50 yards. For whatever reason the bear hunched up, turned very slowly and started to walk away from where it was shot. After about 10 feet of walking the bear finally went down. But after it went down, it tried to get up, only to fall down again. The bear attempted a second time to get up, and...again the same thing happened and the bear fell down. I am saying to myself that I don't want to shoot you again, however I was also afraid this bear would get a second wind and take off like a rocket ship into some very dense cover that I preferred not to drag it out of. On the third attempt of the bear trying to get up, it's head was facing directly away from me, at which time I decided to spine the bear. The bullet hit in the center of the hind quarters and came out the nose of the bear, leaving an impressive exit hole. So...do these 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullets penetrate, yes at 50-60 yards they "do" penetrate. The photo is if a broadside shot exit hole of a 225lb black bear, @50-60 yards; 45-70, 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullet.

We're you using the flat nose version or the regular version?

 

[Alibiiv]

Thanks for your input and load data. I have been using Varget because powder valley was out of 4198. It came back in stock this year but at 315 a keg plus shipping and haz...now that we're done with Christmas I need to order some.

I tried different powders, only to find that the IMR 4198 gave the best groups. This is not a hot load by any means, but for our vintage 1895 Marlins it works well and performs well. I was loading a stouter load, then asked, "How dead does an animal have to be??" There was no reason to have a hot load in a lever gun in my opinion, especially something that is 40-50 years old. I found the 300gr TSX FB bullet to be a good choice for the hunting that we do.

 

[rob0820]

I want to take my 45-70 1886 elk hunting next year and trying to find a good bullet to reload. I have shot pigs and whitetails with it with several bullets, and I'm not very happy with any of them so far. I tried 2 different 405g cast lead at reduced velocity. These punch half inch holes straight through with min to no blood trail. Other folks really like cast, maybe they'd expand more on an elk?? This year I switched to 300g Hornady hollow point at full power, which is much flatter shooting. I have seen very few deer act like they'd been electrocuted and expire so dramatically/quickly from a gunshot, but on cleaning, there was no exit wound. Entry was on center broadside at the back edge of the shoulder. I recovered fragments as far as the middle neck area. Can anyone recommend a bullet that acts like the Barnes ttsx in my 338? I want good penetration but also some expansion and a bloodtrail. I just bought 3 boxes of Barnes 300g TSX FB, which have a hollow point big enough to park my truck in. I'm not sure these will hold together or are even intended for heavy game.

Also, on searching this topic, I did find a couple similar threads from years back, mostly recommending the two kinds of bullets I've already tried. Several recommend Speer, but I haven't seen any in stock since I got the gun.

I shoot 300 grain barns tsx fb which is a small hollow point out of a mgm 26" bull barrel 1-10 twist with 53 grains of imr 4198 mag primer 2.8 oal 2380 fps cloverleafs at 100 2.0 at 200 I also load the Barnes 350 tsx fb with same result but my gun is a encore flat point bullets offer similar results, I have taken several game animals with this combo elk would drop quickly

 

[Nomosendero]

400 fps makes next to dick all difference In the trajectory to 250 yards. Run it through a calculator and you will see what i mean. Shoot it at 1500 fps and figure out the drops every 25 yards to 300 yards. Trying to flatten a 45 70 trajectory with a 400 plus grain bullet is farting against thunder.

I checked as I said and yes, the extra velocity does not flatten that much, a small difference to be sure.
I think it's pretty simple for me in working up a 405 load. My main priority will be accuracy, next is keeping recoil at a decent level for me, we are all different in that regard and third will be velocity. My interest will be in that order. If my loads start being uncomfortable, then I will back off.
I shot a Marlin years ago with a hard butt plate with the 405 Elmer Keith load (53 gr. of 3031), it was a little rough.
This rifle is an XLR with a good recoil pad and with scope, at least a pound heavier, we shall see.

 

[Old Rooster]

Alibiiv's mention Barnes 300gr TSX FB is worth mentioning again.I have used that bullet with success and would use it again.
I have also use this ammo: Garret Hard Cast Ammo.Easy to find on your computer.
I shot a cow elk in timber with a Marlin 45-70 420gr hard cast and she dropped like a rock.
If you shoot hard cast at low power you will get negative results,they have to pushed hard.
If recoil bothers you go with the Barnes bullets.
I'm too old to take that much recoil very often so I shoot Hornady 350 gr soft points or the Barnes 300gr TSX FB mostly now.

 

[Nomosendero]

My final load for the hunt was 54.5Gr. of Varget with the 405 Cast Per. running about 1750. The recoil was stout but not uncomfortable, due to the weight of the rifle and the recoil pad installed. The country was hilly with scrub cedars rather close together. It took about 5 hours to get on a small herd that was cutting through cedars on the opposite hillside. When I got into position one of the herd caught a glimpse of me and they took off. Later we caught them stepping into a food plot and I set up behind a small cedar for the shot. The distance was just under a 100 yards.
She was quartered toward me, I went for the point of the shoulder, the CP 405 blew a sizable hole in the near lung and angled through and out the other side, out of the paunch. She turned, made 2 steps and slammed the ground. Blood was all over the ground, I was most impressed with the performance!

 

[Varmint Hunter]

My final load for the hunt was 54.5Gr. of Varget with the 405 Cast Per. running about 1750. The recoil was stout but not uncomfortable, due to the weight of the rifle and the recoil pad installed. The country was hilly with scrub cedars rather close together. It took about 5 hours to get on a small herd that was cutting through cedars on the opposite hillside. When I got into position one of the herd caught a glimpse of me and they took off. Later we caught them stepping into a food plot and I set up behind a small cedar for the shot. The distance was just under a 100 yards.
She was quartered toward me, I went for the point of the shoulder, the CP 405 blew a sizable hole in the near lung and angled through and out the other side, out of the paunch. She turned, made 2 steps and slammed the ground. Blood was all over the ground, I was most impressed with the performance!
View attachment 442199

You can't ask for much better performance than that! Congrats on your new trophy.