I am very dissapointed with Berger bullets regarding the 338 hybrid bullet.

[Marine sniper]

Kirby,

You bring up some fair points, but I said in the post previous to yours that if the 338 Yogi I am having built does not like the .9 BC Bergers it would be on me. Frankly, I have shot so many Berger bullets out of so many different rifles that it was my faith in their accuracy that prompted me to take the plunge. I have never personally fed Berger's to any rifle that did not like them. I thought if Berger makes a 338 cal. bullet with a BC of .9 I want them, and I am confident enough that they will shoot to take the risk. Once again, if the rifle ended up not liking them so be it. I would do exactly what you are talking about with the SMK. It was the shaky issue with the 200 ULD's that finally made me shy away from your 7mm AM (that we discussed at length approx 2 years ago) You were very up front with the issues Wildcat bullets were going through at the time and it cost you a sale. I was ready to send you a check. Now that the ULD's are back up and running the 7mm AM is back on the front burner with me. I am keeping an eye on your new action and it has me interested also. Your professionalism from 2 years ago made me trust you and i know you will not BS me.

Once again my issue is with with the fact they did not test and confirm the BC and velocity ceiling of these bullets, and now to compound the issue specific questions being ignored.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

I ordered 250 Bergers as soon as they were released. I was a little disapointed that they would not work in my 338 Lapua Improved. I chaulked it up to striving for the best and sometimes not meeting my goal. Then Mr litz offered a way to get a refund. No problem with me, I will wait to see how the modified version does.

I was actually wondering what I was going to do with the 1,300 smk's that I already have. I have no problem having to shoot the smk's. I love the way they shoot and the way they perform on game. With the added velocity in the 338 Lapua imp. I think I have a win, win situation.

Good luck to Berger Bullets, I am confident they will resolve their issues and in the end will have a great bullet to offer us.

Ray, aka "my glass is half full"

 

[Chas1]

SHRTSHTR, good attitude. No sense going off the deep end over it.

 

[elkaholic]

I ordered 250 Bergers as soon as they were released. I was a little disapointed that they would not work in my 338 Lapua Improved. I chaulked it up to striving for the best and sometimes not meeting my goal. Then Mr litz offered a way to get a refund. No problem with me, I will wait to see how the modified version does.

I was actually wondering what I was going to do with the 1,300 smk's that I already have. I have no problem having to shoot the smk's. I love the way they shoot and the way they perform on game. With the added velocity in the 338 Lapua imp. I think I have a win, win situation.

Good luck to Berger Bullets, I am confident they will resolve their issues and in the end will have a great bullet to offer us.

Ray, aka "my glass is half full"

I don't have anyone to complain to about the ones that I shoot......Rich

 

[theodore]

What will be interesting is the minimum impact velocity on these current generation vs the generation 2 bullets.

Will these bullets expansion perform like the smaller caliber or not???

The real advantage with high bc is retained velocity for expansion (depend on bullet material/design) and holds sonic speed farther. Few hundred yards farther makes all of the difference to some folks.

 

[elkaholic]

What will be interesting is the minimum impact velocity on these current generation vs the generation 2 bullets.

Will these bullets expansion perform like the smaller caliber or not???

The real advantage with high bc is retained velocity for expansion (depend on bullet material/design) and holds sonic speed farther. Few hundred yards farther makes all of the difference to some folks.

You make a good point and the impact velocity WILL have to be higher to start expansion. Sure could use a good ballistic tip

 

[SHRTSHTR]

You make a good point and the impact velocity WILL have to be higher to start expansion. Sure could use a good ballistic tip

Good one Rich!

 

[Broz]

the impact velocity WILL have to be higher to start expansion. Sure could use a good ballistic tip

Rich, Typically, what woulf you think this would add to the price in a high production bullet? I too think it would be a plus if it would not make the price to high.

I probably just shoot to much..

Jeff

 

[elkaholic]

Good one Rich!

Thought you might appreciate that.......

 

[elkaholic]

Rich, Typically, what woulf you think this would add to the price in a high production bullet? I too think it would be a plus if it would not make the price to high.

I probably just shoot to much..

Jeff

Depends on what material they used, but for a large mass production company, I wouldn't think more than 10 or 15 cents.

 

[elkaholic]

Depends on what material they used, but for a large mass production company, I wouldn't think more than 10 or 15 cents.

I guess comparing the cost of an A-Max to a Berger might tell us something....Rich

 

[Eric Stecker]

I just learned about this thread and there are a couple of things that need to be clarified. First of all, anyone who thinks that this situation or any situation regarding performance of Berger Bullets is a failing of Bryan Litz is flat wrong. Bryan is our ballistician who provides us with designs and analysis. I am the one who makes these bullets and if they fail to meet expectations it is entirely my fault.

Anyone who thinks that Bryan, I or anyone at Berger is trying to BS them has a misunderstanding of the situation. We have been and always will be committed to the truth. If we say something today that is proven wrong next week we will openly admit it. When we originally made the statement we believed it to be true. There has never been a deliberate effort to mislead or confuse a situation so the idea that we are seeking to BS anyone is BS itself.

There are a handful of people who have done as much as Bryan has to enhance the shooting experience. Those who think he has erred in this or any effort he has pursued need to look at how much they have done to enhance the shooting sports. Try to make your own product and stand in front of the masses and be judged. I doubt you will be as eager to spew venom if you do.

I completely understand that everyone who was waiting for our 338 cal bullet has reason to be let down. It was my decision to go ahead and release these bullets with the .891 BC. I based this decision on minimal testing and many years of previous successes. I assumed that this bullet would be no different. I was obviously wrong and my overconfidence in our ability to expand into the 338 cal has created this situation.

I have said this before and will say it again. ANYONE who is not happy with ANY Berger bullet is able to contact us to arrange for an exchange. This is true for the 338 cal as much as it is true for ANY Berger Bullet. I suspect that Bryan has handled some of these situations but I will ask him and I will relay to you that all you need to do is contact Teresa Collins at 714-447-5456 or [email protected]. She will arrange for your bullets to be picked up and delivered to us at no charge to you. In the case of the 338 cal bullets we will exchange them for the revised Hybrid.

What is the revised Hybrid? We have no intensions of changing the design that Bryan has provided. Our goal now is to understand why these bullets are affected by higher pressures when our other bullets are not affected in the same way. Once we understand what is causing this we will build a solution and replace those bullets that were returned. Keep in mind that the hybrid bullet is only one of three designs. We have not started making the BT and VLD versions yet and won't until this high pressure sensitivity issue is resolved.

I have many other strong opinions about some of the comments made on this thread but I will hold my tongue as I am the one who created a situation where these comments can be made. What I will say is that Berger has proven that we are committed to performance and the truth. If what I have done has upset or frustrated anyone I apologize and assure you that we will do everything required to continue making the highest BC 338 cal bullet in existence work for everyone.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets

 

[elkaholic]

Can't argue with that. If you have never made a mistake, you probably haven't done much at all......Rich
p.s. would you consider making a ballistic tipped version for "long range" hunting?

 

[winmag]

Wow.
I dont even shoot Berger bullets, but I just might start! After the way Ive seen Eric, and Bryan, and the Berger guys stand up, and take this, like men, (who-depending on your opinion- may or may not deserve whats being thrown thier way). I have never seen a company of any kind stand up and willingly accept full responsibility, without some kind of finger-pointing. Very few men these days have the ''sack and gutts'' to do so. I respect that.
I here the praises of Berger all the time here on L/R/H, but havent jumped on the wagon as my effective range is limmited by my personal ability to 600+/- yards. Whats long range for me doesnt mean ''squat'' compared to many shooters here. But having seen and read SO many threads from so many reputable L/R shooters sing the praises of Berger, I find it a little odd that folks are so willing to jump on the ''dog-pile'' and ''bash'' a company who has strived so hard to give us the best Long Range bullet they could. I may have to better my ability just to start shooting Bergers out of respect for the way they stand behind thier work, and take personal responsibility for thier mistake.
Ok, so there was a mistake made. Look who stood up and offered to take the blame(personally). Look who stands behind thier work and offers-free of charge- to make it right. Does your job get put under the magnafying glass? Looks to me like theyre a stand up company, with a great reputation, and commitment to thier customers.
The Berger boys are ALWAYS referanced when it comes to HONESTY, and RELIABLE bullet data on any given bullet-even if its not thiers. I would do some ''soul searching'' before 1 small chink in the armor of a reputation like that made my decision to turn tail. They are still loyal to making thier customers happy. The scruitiny theyre put under by the Long Range shooting community, makes rocket science look like a chump job. They have the info, and are working to make it right. Give em time to fix the problemb, and you probably wont be dissapointed.
I realize that there are some very dissapointed folks. I also realize the Berger boys dont need anybody to defend them, but before you jump on the pile and bash them, think about the reputation they have earned, and what theyre doing to keep it.