I am very dissapointed with Berger bullets regarding the 338 hybrid bullet.

[royinidaho]

Just spent the afternoon working on the drop chart. Found a place in the desert where I could shoot directly into a north wind. I don't think shooting into the wind was an advantage due to the way I shot. Wind has been 8 to 15 mph all day.

300 yd zero. Drop at 430 and 690 were pretty much spot on for elevation. Got a little horizontal spread due to an uncomfortable prone position. Something was amiss as the bipod jumped better than an inch of the ground with each of the 690 yd shots. Never had that happen before.

Distances are strange as they just happen to be where the 1st and 3rd mil dots should be zeroed.

Happy with the bullet. Not so happy with my shootin' even though all shots at both distances would have been a dead yote.

 

[mike33]

Cant wait until this fall when the jury comes back in. i bulit my edge for 1 reason , to knock the hell out of an elk at long range. Never even thought of jumping on the berger wagon with al the positive feedback on the smk from members on this site. +1 for the smk.
mike

 

[BryanLitz]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. The problems associated with shooting these bullets from large magnums is unfortunate. My lesson from this is to not project new bullet performance, or even announce new bullets until they've been thoroughly tested by us first. This will add to the timeline, and limit the opportunity for customer involvement in the design process, but it will avoid disappointment.

Toughening up these bullets so they can withstand higher launch pressures is a very high priority for us right now. We're working to make this right.

Anyone who has bought these bullets for use in larger magnums and would like to exchange the bullets can do so. We will issue a UPS call tag and have the bullets picked up from your residence. When the new (tougher) bullets are available, you will be sent replacements. Please contact me at: [email protected] to arrange the exchange.

As several have pointed out, these bullets are perfect for many .338 chamberings including the Edge, and some .338 LM's. Soon we'll have the option available for larger chamberings.

-Bryan

 

[bigngreen]

Bryan, just to clarify is Berger going to replace the current design with a stronger one or will there be two jacket designs to choose from?

I don't currently have a rifle to shoot the 338 bullets but it seems that the current design may have exellent terminal performance for the 338 RUM and similar chamberings.

 

[Chas1]

Once again, hats off to Berger and Bryan. Open, honest and replacing with stronger bullets is fair.

 

[BryanLitz]

Bryan, just to clarify is Berger going to replace the current design with a stronger one or will there be two jacket designs to choose from?

I don't currently have a rifle to shoot the 338 bullets but it seems that the current design may have exellent terminal performance for the 338 RUM and similar chamberings.

We'll be replacing the current design completely with the tougher bullets.

 

[Marine sniper]

Is there anything in the works regarding the BC issues ?

 

[BryanLitz]

I find it unimaginable that a company with the reputation of Berger bullets would not thoroughly test and confirm, at an absolute minimum, the ballistic coefficient and velocity ceiling of the bullets before ever talking about them in public. It would have been ok to say you were working on something in the 338 caliber and to give goals regarding BC, etc. But to publish data before thoroughly testing and confirming it is unacceptable.

Is there anything in the works regarding the BC issues ?

With respect, I dare not comment on any affect our re-design might or might not have on the BC.

 

[Chas1]

With respect, I dare not comment on any affect our re-design might or might not have on the BC.

At this point, I think a fair position to take.

 

[elmerdeer]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. The problems associated with shooting these bullets from large magnums is unfortunate. My lesson from this is to not project new bullet performance, or even announce new bullets until they've been thoroughly tested by us first. This will add to the timeline, and limit the opportunity for customer involvement in the design process, but it will avoid disappointment.

Toughening up these bullets so they can withstand higher launch pressures is a very high priority for us right now. We're working to make this right.

Anyone who has bought these bullets for use in larger magnums and would like to exchange the bullets can do so. We will issue a UPS call tag and have the bullets picked up from your residence. When the new (tougher) bullets are available, you will be sent replacements. Please contact me at: [email protected] to arrange the exchange.

As several have pointed out, these bullets are perfect for many .338 chamberings including the Edge, and some .338 LM's. Soon we'll have the option available for larger chamberings.

-Bryan

Hi Brian, have you had any feedback on the 7mm 180gr hybrids and how they hold up under higher speeds? I have qiute a few, and loaded 30 rounds to try at 200yards, worked up to 2900fps and groups were half moa, so they do fly great so far. Anyways just wondering if you are getting feedback on them?
Thank you
Elmer

 

[BryanLitz]

Elmer,

So far the hottest cartridge I know of those bullets being fired from is the 284 Shehene at about 2900 fps (same speed as you) and they've had no problems so far.

I think this nose slump issue is going to be unique to the .338's, not the hybrid design. The nose of the .338's is just so full of lead that the relative strength of the jacket to keep the shape of the bullet is much weaker compared to a smaller caliber bullet.

-Bryan

 

[Fiftydriver]

Bryan,

If I may ask a favor, if these bullets are going to be totally redesigned for higher velocity, why not design a bullet that will survive a 3300 fps launch velocity in a 1-10 twist barrel.

There is a pretty large interest in the 408 CT based wildcats in 338 and to be blunt and honest, this version of the Berger 300 gr is basically birdshot out of a 338-408 CT.

From my testing, it seems the 338 RUM is the very largest that seems to offer fine consistancy with a 1-10 twist barrel at a velocity of around 2750 fps. In a seasoned barrel, even at +2800 fps I was having serious accuracy problems with some shots flying as much as 4-5 moa from the rest of the group. This occured about 15% of the time.

At +2900 fps, in a fresh barrel, accuracy was very good out of my 338 AX (338 Lapua Improved) but in a seasoned barrel, 50% of shots were extreme fliers. Over 2950 fps it was nearly 75% fliers or failures and at +3000 fps the first shot out of an clean, oiled barrel would reach the target, nothing after that.

With all the research and development we can do these days, I would love to see a tapered jacket bullet that could survive high velocity launch speeds(3300 fps) but also offer somewhat controled expansion to be useful at closer ranges as well as long range. Simply put, build us a high BC hunting bullet, not a match bullet.

Done asking for favors. Good luck with the next Generation 300 gr.

 

[trueblue]

I have full confidence that Berger will work these issues out, given some time. Great customer service move on their part to replace bullets for unhappy customers. As with all good things, there is a time period where the kinks need to be worked out. I wish Berger good luck in this endeavor. It will be nice to have another 300gr bullet choice.

 

[Marine sniper]

Is the bullet design is what it is, other than the slumping issue? Do I need to get the idea of a 338 cal Berger bullet having a BC of .9 out of my head and accept the fact that this bullet will be what it is at .818 (approx)

And here.

I am not asking for the BC of any new bullets, just if they are going to try to improve on the BC of this bullet.