Heavier bullets for smaller callibers
- Thread starter Akredneck
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
There's diminishing returns on both ends of the spectrum. If you're only shooting to 300 yards it really doesn't matter what bullet you shoot, most cartridges used for hunting will produce enough energy to get the job done, the trajectory and wind influences are not important. Especially if you have your ranges established with land marks or your max point blank range figured out.
Coming up with the right words to describe how strongly I disagree, to ensure everyone reading would know just how strongly I disagree... is proving difficult.
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
Have at it, everyone has a opinion.Coming up with the right words to describe how strongly I disagree, to ensure everyone reading would know just how strongly I disagree... is proving difficult.
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Again, most can't shoot the difference.
Let's here what the lord has to say.
del2les
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I have shot far too many bullseye rifle matches, small game and small varmints in windy conditions to agree with this.
However, you do you.
Most can shoot the difference. Most think they can't, because they read messages like that on the internet all the time, so they think it's not worth pursuing. Then they show up somewhere real shooters congregate, and find their performances extremely lacking. Then they get solid advice from those with experience, change their choices, and start making hits on smaller targets at greater distances than they have ever been able to before in their life.
I've seen it countless times. The light/fast crowd is heavy on excuses. The heavy/slow crowd is heavy on impacts. It's not an elevation disparity problem. It's a wind disparity problem. It's also an aerodynamic jump problem, as the lower BC's are affected drastically more and at much closer ranges.
This topic is one of the easiest ways I've seen to categorically flag shooters that are much more accepting of misses than others.
... and if you're going to bring the Lord into it, give Him capitalization if you can remember to, and it's "hear" not "here."
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
Let me completely honest with you for a minute. I don't give you much clout because you're so conceited and you always open your post with the orkan has entered the chat so all must worship his gospel arrogance that's been proven wrong on various other forums over and over. You're not the Lord so no capital letter is needed. You don't have a open mind to the fact other methods work too. I honestly don't ever read or watch your videos for that very fact. I true velocity 800 yards and in, and true bc 800 and out. You don't have to like it, but don't expect me to bow to your gospel just because you've spoken. And I absolutely do not see the heavy's with more impacts on unknown distances at 800 and in. Not at all, but hey what do I know, apparently you are the only one shooting matches. You need to lighten up with the ego dude.Most can shoot the difference. Most think they can't, because they read messages like that on the internet all the time, so they think it's not worth pursuing. Then they show up somewhere real shooters congregate, and find their performances extremely lacking. Then they get solid advice from those with experience, change their choices, and start making hits on smaller targets at greater distances than they have ever been able to before in their life.
I've seen it countless times. The light/fast crowd is heavy on excuses. The heavy/slow crowd is heavy on impacts. It's not an elevation disparity problem. It's a wind disparity problem. It's also an aerodynamic jump problem, as the lower BC's are affected drastically more and at much closer ranges.
This topic is one of the easiest ways I've seen to categorically flag shooters that are much more accepting of misses than others.
... and if you're going to bring the Lord into it, give Him capitalization if you can remember to, and it's "hear" not "here."
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The here vs hear swipe is just petty and reflective of your ego.
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del2les
Well-Known Member
Somewhat have to disagree. Here in the "windy West", several cartridge and bullet loads may drift 3-6 inches at 300, and if the conditions are a little more windy, even more. A light, fast 223 or 243 bullet will completely miss P-dogs, Marmots, etc, and may cause a gut shot coyote instead of a kill. Similar may happen with Pronghorn. Of course with P-dogs and similar size, an inch or two is a miss.
We shoot a lot of small varmints in windy conditions and between 300-800 yards, and there is no wind drift comparison between say a 223 or 22-250 with 50-55gr bullets vs my 75-80gr bullets/loads in either. Same for all those NM 600 yard slow prone and 600yd F-Class courses. High BC's dominate, and that is why we began using them so many decades ago. To better handle the changes in wind drift, even shorter 200-300yd BR shooters went to higher BC bullets and calibers like the 6x45, 6BR, 6PPC, 7BR, 308, etc. Not to mention the longer BR shoots from 300 to 1,000 yds.
As for larger game in the "windy West", I have witnessed good calm weather shooters miss and make poor hits at very acceptable ranges, but their bullet BC of choice was not the best for tackling these, often, unpredictable winds.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I don't see it, I do most of my ladders and load development at 300 yards for the very reason any further I can't discriminate between outside influences.
My hit percentage with a 55 grain load out of my 223 at 300 is well into the 90plus percent range even on windy days. Are my misses the wind, or just the SD of dispersion?
COBrad
Well-Known Member
The vast majority of my hunting is small varmints- prairie dogs and marmots. The higher BC bullets definitely make a difference in wind drift, at ranges as close as 300 yards depending on the wind. The past couple years I've been shooting 75-85 grain bullets and the next barrel will move up from 22-250 to 22 creedmore and I have 1K 88 grain ELDM's under the bench. For me it's all about BC.
It's too easy to see the difference in wind drift of different bullets by using JBM Ballistics' online tool.
10 mph direct crosswind
6.5 130 Scirocco at 3150 fps
300 yards - 4.4"; .4 mils
500 yards - 12.7"; .7 mils
800 yards - 35.5"; 1.2 mils
6.5 124 HH at 3150 fps
300 yards - 4.4", .4 mils
500 yards - 12.5", .7 mils
800 yards - 35"; 1.2 mils
6.5 124 HH at 3250 fps
300 yards - 4"; .4 mils
500 yards - 11.9", .7 mils
800 yards - 33.3"; 1.2 mils
6.5 156 Berger EOL 2600
300 yards - 3.9"; .4 mils
500 yards - 11.4"; .6 mils
800 yards - 31.2"; 1.1 mils
6.5 156 Berger EOL 2950
300 yards - 3.3"; .3 mils
500 yards - 9.4"; .5 mils
800 yards - 25.7; .9 mils
10 mph direct crosswind
6.5 130 Scirocco at 3150 fps
300 yards - 4.4"; .4 mils
500 yards - 12.7"; .7 mils
800 yards - 35.5"; 1.2 mils
6.5 124 HH at 3150 fps
300 yards - 4.4", .4 mils
500 yards - 12.5", .7 mils
800 yards - 35"; 1.2 mils
6.5 124 HH at 3250 fps
300 yards - 4"; .4 mils
500 yards - 11.9", .7 mils
800 yards - 33.3"; 1.2 mils
6.5 156 Berger EOL 2600
300 yards - 3.9"; .4 mils
500 yards - 11.4"; .6 mils
800 yards - 31.2"; 1.1 mils
6.5 156 Berger EOL 2950
300 yards - 3.3"; .3 mils
500 yards - 9.4"; .5 mils
800 yards - 25.7; .9 mils
del2les
Well-Known Member
Hit % on what? What group size? What wind speeds? etc?. There are hits and then there are hits. This is why I love varied bullseye type of matches, for every shot is counted and there to show size, score, etc. If you have never shot in the West during wind and at P-dogs or similar, you would quickly learn those 55's are great some days, and not so much on others. Similar for larger calibers and game at distance.
Go to a couple of F-class shoots, BR matches, 300-600yd prone, etc, and see ho many people are using 55gr or similar "weight to caliber" bullets. Let alone placing or winning. Longer ranges even more so.
YMMV
del2les
Well-Known Member
Now, have those winds varying between, say 8-15 or 10-18 (or more) and at longer distances (5-800), and now the problem becomes even more pronounced.
