I want a legit argument against an old trusted cartridge

[yogibearmech]

So just my opinion that a gun is a tool. Certian tools work better for certain jobs. You don't need a 375 H&H mag to kill a deer.
Few years ago I bought a custom rifle from Scott Harold at QMM. I went to Idaho for his training session along with 2 other buyers of his guns. The day we shot there were 2 300 WM one 7mm RM and a new 28 Nosler. We shot out to 1185 yards. The 7 mag was falling way short with the 180 VLD. Recovered one 7mm bullet laying in the field and the hollow point had barely expanded. It fell short by several yards. Of the 2 300 WM one for some reason had a faster barrel than the other. Chronograph readings were around 100 FPS faster. The faster 300 WM made it easier to hit the steel plate at that distance. The 28 Noer ruled the shoot. With the high BC 195 Gr bullet and the faster muzzle velocity beat the other 3 rifles hands down.
That being said its a tool if you aren't shooting that distance then no need for the extra powder and recoil. Shoot what you want and like.

 

[mindcrime]

"I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7."

50 BMG might kill, destroy bigger stuff so that would be fun.
458 Winchester might be fun, load it up and load it down...
338, would be fun, you walk with a swagger in elk camp carrying on of them bad boys.
300 Winchester, ah, lots of recoil, a real man's .308...
30.06, lots of history, venerable....would they design it today?
7mm REM mag, now there's a flat shooting, .284 projectile that zips through the air with a BC so high you don't need weed.
270, poor stepped on step child...150 grain Nosler partition going 2800....hmmm
Then there's the genius of marketing and I gotta have me that new fuggin rifle cause the new machines make better, tighter stuff these days, and, gosh darn it that 7mm crushes my old arthritic shoulder, don't mind the pain on a hunt, but, practice sucks...
So, what is this new fangled 6.5 PRC...? High BC bullets, fat short case that might just fit in a short action mountain rifle, and, it does good on a 24 inch barrel? Maybe 22 inch? Where can I try me one of them, ballistics like a 300 WM? No? Recoil like a 30.06 ? Or less? God bless?
I gotta try me one of them....
I wonder if I can sneak it past the Mrs? Make it look like my 7mm....sprinkle some dirt and chicken feathers on it.?
Dang I like new stuff, can't have too many knives or rifles...
How much is ammo?

You just nailed why my FINAL BUILD is a 7mm Rem Mag.

 

[Win.308Stealth]

When you bring up RECOIL in a conversation about 7mm RM vs 300 WM ...... I lose my lunch with disgust....

Where did all the men go in the shooting sports ? weenies

All these men go to a place where you can get really huge muzzle breaks! Lol
Pic look familiar?

 

[DJ Fergus]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

I couldn't have said all better myself. I have owned rifles & shot deer in every caliber between 22 to30 cal and a 35 cal.
I own a 300 Norma magnum (which is amazing), 7mm stw, two 6.5 creedmoors, just sold a 300wm and a 270wsm. I own two 7mm rem mags. 7mm rem mag with a 160 or 180 bullet is my all around favorite. Like you said, bucks wind better than the 6.5s and my 7mm rem mag 180s @ 2860fps with muzzle brake has hardly any discernable difference in recoil than my creedmoor with 147 grainers @ 2940fps. I do like the creedmoor and the other rifles I have decided not to sell. 7mm rem mag: way under rated. It won the 264 vs 7mm battle back in the 1960s. I'm not bashing 6.5 calibers but I have proved to myself that I prefer my old 7mm rem mag.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

I have owned a 7mm Rem Mag. I sold it and am looking to buy a non-belted modern Magnum, such as a 28 Nosler or better yet a 7mm Blaser Magnum. The 7mm Rem Mag will always have good commercial ammo success as this is in the "top ten" of popular cartridges. This alone speaks for the Cartridge's success

 

[Tyler Kee]

I shot my first deer, an aged out Hill Country Whitetail, with a 7 mag shooting CoreLokts. I don't remember the recoil at the time but that's because I was 16 and more adrenaline than boy. What I do remember is that bullet sailing through that deer like a hot knife through butter and wrecking everything along the way. Years later, I knew more, and realized why all the old timers had said "boy that's a lot of rifle for a deer that size"

Here are some considerations for those looking at 7 mag

***Recoil***

Yes, there are the MEN among us unaffected by even the most punishing of dangerous game loads. And then there are the other 99.5% of shooters who absolutely, categorically, objectively, scientifically develop a flinch shooting 300WM and similar.

7mm Magnums absolutely recoil less while still delivering devastating downrange performance, flat drops, and great wind resistance. There is nothing the 300WM does so well in the field that makes it worth the cost to shooter performance.

***Belts***

I went to one of Gunwerks' classes in Cody years ago. At the time, their LR1000 rifles were almost exclusively done up in 7LRM which is (basically) just an unbelted 7Mag. I asked Aaron Davidson about the decision to make their own cartridge instead of just using 7Mag. He detailed most of his thoughts here.

http://site-media.net/gunwerks/7LRMarticle(1).pdf

However, two noteworthy aspects he mentioned in person and - brass life and accuracy. Their experience showed better brass life and better accuracy using non belted cases. That article details other design considerations as well. I managed to put together what I felt were acceptable loads in my personal 7 mag by bumping the shoulders .002" and moving on with my life.

***Logistics***

From a logistics standpoint, 7Mag is about the only non 30 cal that you will ALWAYS find on the shelf in every store no matter the economic or political climate.


For the hunting I do, 7 mag doesn't have a place. A 243 WIN w/ 95 gr BTs covers **** near every shooting situation I'd encounter. The only reason I have a 30-06 shooting 180 BTs is because sometimes there's a big sow or Axis "over there" and the 243 doesn't have the gas at impact to do the work. Also, I wanted it.

Were I to spend more time out west where the animals were bigger, the winds were stiffer, and the distances longer, a 7Mag shooting heavies would be the first thing I'd buy.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

While "possibly" true, many of us shooters are very unbalanced and need much varied medication.

One builds up a tolerance, and needs higher doses, then a change, or a reaction occurs and your heuvos turn blue. Maybe it's time to let the new ways die...?

 

[mindcrime]

All these men go to a place where you can get really huge muzzle breaks! Lol
Pic look familiar?

View attachment 152037

I liked this, but had to unlike after I saw that you put a brake on a 308.

 

[vancewalker007]

Funny with all of the latest long range Crazy and cartridges, one of the best long range cartridges 7mm Rem mag has been here all along. Throat it for the heavies and its as good as it gets for hunting.

Now with that said I have never, and will never own one, just to plain Jane for me hahaha

Most people are like you that's why we have the large choice of great cartridges on the land scape.

To the original point, nothing wrong with the 7 Rem Mag. Like someone said throat it for long heavy bullets pick the right barrel twist and you have rifle with 1000 yard big game potential and can travel around the world. It's what I will be carrying in Africa next year for plains game.

 

[del2les]

One builds up a tolerance, and needs higher doses, then a change, or a reaction occurs and your heuvos turn blue. Maybe it's time to let the new ways die...?

My Practitioner at the local shooting clinic(shop) prescribes routine changes and amounts in "powdered" medication with varied sizes of "pills". He states what I have is epidemic among many shooters and may or may not be curable. CDC studies reveal many shooters never overcome this caliber of disease and can only expect to keep the symptoms within a certain budget. THE SEARCH, to find the "one right" caliber of medication to cure all our symptoms.

 

[Win.308Stealth]

I liked this, but had to unlike after I saw that you put a brake on a 308.

Thats not My pic. That was pic was pulles off of Swamplords site. Sure he's shooting some .40 cal wildcat based ooff the .338 LM (I think). It was just a friendly jab at Swamplord.
I myself used to shoot a .300 RUM and a 7 SAUM until this year. But 3 weeks ago had c5-c6 disc replacement and fusion surgery. Doc says no shooting until l next spring, and I can pretty much sell my magnum rifles. ):

 

[freddiej]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

If you need a valid argument for not shooting a 7MM Mag I can not find one for you. I have never had so much BS tossed at me ever since I have built a 270 variant of the 7MM R/M. I am not a 7MM fan, not a 6.5 fan, or a 6MM fan. I like the older cartridges. I own 270's, 338's, 444's, 25-06's, 300 Win Mag, 45-70's, and some varmint cartridges. the only 6.5 I will ever own is a 264 Win Mag. now back to the 270-7MM R/M. it was so easy and when the dies came; they came with a note (WHY!?!) I wanted to ruin a perfectly good cartridge with an inferior slug. not going to repeat what I told the die manufacturer. I built the rifle to shoot the 170 grain VLD Berger slugs for long range deer, and all heavy slugs for the 270. I hope they make more selection for us 270 guys. I am hoping for a 175, 180, and 185 grain slug for the 1-7" twist barrels.
Personally you like the 7MM R/M stick with it. new, shiny, and all that other stuff is for people that are not comfortable with what is useful. I might like your choice in chamberings but you like it and you use it well. it's like my 270's I use them well and they are effective. why change?

 

[littlewhaler]

[/QUOTE
Recoil just doesn't bother me in hunting situation especially if properly fit into shoulder. Bench shooting and prairie dogs are different. (Shooting repetitive rounds for half an hour will make my shoulder talk with the big mags). Usually wear a shooting pad or heavy jacket for that with 338 Win Mag and 230 gr bullets or more. I luv the big mags for what they do to dangerous big game and I enjoy hunting with them but a Thor hammer not needed for deer/antelope/pigs/varmits etc.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

We got together and picked out the rifle we want to get for you for Christmas...
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/227657