Speed deviations

Coldfinger

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Feb 20, 2020
Messages
468
Location
NY
I was wondering what the fuss is about speed deviations at normal hunting ranges say out to 500 yards? I have a friend that has a Rem 700 300WM, 26” bartlein ss 1-10t barrel, 40x trigger mag pull stock. He asked me to glass bed it as his best group was 11/2” at 200 yards. All scope and mounting hardware is Leupold. I bedded it and worked him up a load using 168 grain Berger’s and H4831. I gave him the target at 100 yards just under 1/2” group 3 shots. Also Berger 155 grain vld same powder put 2 in a perfect hole and I pulled the flier 1/4” off. He’s insisting on using heavies over 200 grains. He did a deviation check on my load and was hovering in the 50 FPS deviations. I’ve never checked deviations in my life I go after tightest group I can get with a chosen bullet!

Now he adjusted powder charge to single digit deviations and he is throwing 4” groups at 200 yards! I told him To play with seating depth before anything and like it or not that rifle liked the 155 better than 168 and may like something lighter better. So I’ll continue going after tight groups for our kind of hunting here in Western NY which 300 yards is a long shot. But should I be after low speed deviations before I go after tight groups. I have been reloading 30 years based off what my father taught me of the time. I’ve only started experimenting different theories after joining LRH this spring.
 

MagnumManiac

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Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
2,205
Always go by the target!
There is no set in stone rule that says tiny ES/SD give you tight groups. I have a load in my 25-06 that has 100fps swing from highest to lowest velocities...but it will put 5 shots into 3/8MoA all day long.
Many people read forums like this one, get ONE thing from many articles, rather than the full picture, and focus on that thing, and only that one thing. This happens alot.
I would not be using 155-168gr pills in a 300WM, it shines with bullets 200gr and heavier.
I hunt with 210gr ABLR’s at just over 3000fps.

Cheers.
 

Elk Hunter 338

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Feb 19, 2010
Messages
1,610
Location
Pocatello Idaho
I go buy extreme Spread only not SD..
reason for this is, I've watched single digit "SD" return with 50+ ES on labradar>>>RIDDLE ME THAT!!

4" at 200 yards!!! id stick with your load!!
I only look at My ES across the entire shot string high to low ..period doesn't get any simpler than that.. if your ammo isn't say 25 fps or lower in ES go back to the drawing board.

1 reason his single digit SD is ****** at 200 is because his actual extreme spread is through the roof. I've tested it on a labradar and have seen the SD Tiny and the ES large with groups also tiny at 100.

As magnum said I've seen some tremendous groups followed by horrible ES. Always watch the ES across the 3 or 5 shot string (if the first three wont produce it the next ain't gonna help).
 

Coldfinger

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LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
468
Location
NY
Always go by the target!
There is no set in stone rule that says tiny ES/SD give you tight groups. I have a load in my 25-06 that has 100fps swing from highest to lowest velocities...but it will put 5 shots into 3/8MoA all day long.
Many people read forums like this one, get ONE thing from many articles, rather than the full picture, and focus on that thing, and only that one thing. This happens alot.
I would not be using 155-168gr pills in a 300WM, it shines with bullets 200gr and heavier.
I hunt with 210gr ABLR’s at just over 3000fps.

Cheers.
I only have .308 110-168 grain bullets to try in his rifle. My powder bullets primers and brass for a freebie I wasn’t going to get to carried away if you kno what I mean. I am going to try some heavies in my 300 WM soon. Thanks for the insight. Your bullets gotta be a hammr at that speed. I’d like to get a prefit 300 RUM and run some heavies and see how it compares to my 338 edge .
 

Coldfinger

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LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
468
Location
NY
I go buy extreme Spread only not SD..
reason for this is, I've watched single digit "SD" return with 50+ ES on labradar>>>RIDDLE ME THAT!!

4" at 200 yards!!! id stick with your load!!
I only look at My ES across the entire shot string high to low ..period doesn't get any simpler than that.. if your ammo isn't say 25 fps or lower in ES go back to the drawing board.

1 reason his single digit SD is ****** at 200 is because his actual extreme spread is through the roof. I've tested it on a labradar and have seen the SD Tiny and the ES large with groups also tiny at 100.

As magnum said I've seen some tremendous groups followed by horrible ES. Always watch the ES across the 3 or 5 shot string (if the first three wont produce it the next ain't gonna help).
Just run 5 140 grain Accubond through that 7wsm you built me🙈 5 shots in a jagged 1/2” hole jumping a country mile into lands but they will feed thru magazine. Guess I’ll give it a hunting season before I get a 6sst cf on it. Put 3 180 grain vld’s into 1 hole or 2 missed the paper and 4’x4’ cardboard backing!!!! I’ll bet you know where they went. It’s freaking awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Elk Hunter 338

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Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
1,610
Location
Pocatello Idaho
Just run 5 140 grain Accubond through that 7wsm you built me🙈 5 shots in a jagged 1/2” hole jumping a country mile into lands but they will feed thru magazine. Guess I’ll give it a hunting season before I get a 6sst cf on it. Put 3 180 grain vld’s into 1 hole or 2 missed the paper and 4’x4’ cardboard backing!!!! I’ll bet you know where they went. It’s freaking awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's a bad little rig that's for sure!!
 

Laguna Freak

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Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
214
Location
South Central Texas, just north of the Wall
I have recently been motivated to switch my load development method. Now I pick a mid-range book charge and load 3 or 4 rounds in a range of seating depths from .020 to .120, increasing depth by .010 increments to find the most accurate depth before I tune the powder charge.

There exists evidence to suggest that the right depth can reduce velocity ES substantially. Thus reducing or eliminating vertical stringing.
 

BrentM

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Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
2,368
Location
Meridian, Idaho
Es and sd don’t mean much under 500 if the load shoots well enough. I’ve had many many bug hole groups at 100 with absolute crap for es and I’ve had some decent 400-500 groups with load ladder tests with es in the 150 plus range.
Es and sd come into play at long ranges and where reliability counts. If you have 100 es at 1000 you’ll be wounding animals or flat out missing. That same load load sub 500 is likely just fine for minute of deer. In the end the desire to have low sd and es for reliable dial to and impacts on targets at various ranges on kill zone size targets. These are high percentages of hits close to aim point.
 

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