Rifles For Target/Varmint

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I have built numerous rifles on the howa/vanguard actions through the years and prefer them to the remingtons. The tolerances are better with better quality control. If you can get a vanguard for $350 that is a good deal. I don't know what they offer in heavy barrels but I would get a heavy barrel for your purpose. The wby vanguard is an excellent, accurate out of the box rifle. Freefloat barrel, bed the action and order a trigger from midway and you will have a shooter. Howa is the same thing.

The 22-250 is hard to beat as a varminter for accuracy and cheap reloading. The 308 with a 155 scenar shoots very well with nearly unlimited barrel life. I was shooting prarie dogs a couple days ago with a Sako 22-250 I bought in 1975 and it still shoots awesome. The round count on that barrel is way up there but will not match the life of the 308. 25-06 is a great round but not neccesary for your purpose when you can do it cheaper with better barrel life.

 

[Bishop]

I have direct and recent experience with the quest for an accurate factory rifle.

My first purchase was a Remington Sendero SFII in 300 win mag. The bolt is super super smooth, the exterior fit and finish of the rifle was really nice also. I do not like the grip on the H-S stock that comes on the sendero because its way too fat for my taste ( im about 5foot 7 and my hands just dont go around it very well).

The trigger that came on it was terrible with a capital T. Comperable to the factory triggers on my marlin and savage rimfires. I promptly put a jewell in it and its fantastic. But cost another couple hundred bucks ( this has bearing later on in the post).


Accuracy wasnt too exciting while shooting factory ammo, it was a pretty solid 1.25 to 1.75 inch gun with everything i shot through it. Now i have finally gotten setup and started re-loading for it and It shot less than 1 inch at 100 with just my pressure work up loads and i was not even really trying to shoot well. So im figuring it will easily reach my expectations of .75 or better at 100 yards. Probably much better.

So pretty expensive (about 1300$) by the time I paid for the gun and trigger.





Enter the savage,

Bought a savage model 10 predator in .243 with the accu-trigger. Stock had to be opened up a bit to get it to free-float but that was no big deal. Paint job with the camo dipping had a few white spots on it there the paint didnt take too well and there was some chipping and flaking around the edges of everything, all in all no big deal for a 650$ gun.

The trigger oh my oh my what a trigger, for a factory gun its AMAZING. If my remington sendero had come with an accutrigger i wouldnt have spent the extra money for a jewell. The jewell was more than I needed. The accutrigger breaks pretty clean, hardly notice even the smallest amount of creep. And while the weight of pull is definatly more than what i have my jewell adjusted down to it is light enough to not be an issue on a coyote rifle. Taking into account its a factory trigger on a sub 1000 dollar gun only one word can express how i feel about it. SUPERB taking into account what it is.
Accuracy was ok with factory ammo, i got around 1 in groups with it but didnt try to find a box of factory ammo it liked.


Below is a a 4 shot group I shot with it today while working on a load for my rifle. The wind was gusting to 15-20 mph today and i was having to shoot in between blow's. Off the hood of a jeep. The flyer was a goob move on my part i squeezed one off right as the wind kicked up and blew me around a bit. But the 1-st three shots have sold me for life on savage rifles. It definatly shoots WAY better than I can. And this is with a 139$ bushnell banner 6-18x scope.
Range is 100yds. Total cost of rifle and crappy scope 800 $ or less. Im in love!.

 

[Bart B]

The 308 with a 155 scenar shoots very well with nearly unlimited barrel life.

Considering the fact that top-ranked competitive shooters using the .308 notice a very slight falloff in accuracy at about 1500 rounds then rebarrel at about 3000 rounds, "nearly unlimited barrel llife" for the rifles you mention is good to know.

How do they do that and what accuracy level to they hold for their nearly unlimited barrel life?

If one of those barrels starts out shooting no worse than sub 1/3 MOA at 100, sub 2/3 MOA at 600 and sub MOA at 1000 yards, I'll challenge the claim. If those barrels start out with groups twice these numbers, then I might believe it if shot from a machine rest.

Center fire rifle ultra super-accurate barrels wear out faster than pretty good ones. Tent-stake barrels will last forever. Even the best .22 rimfire barrels start going south at about 30,000 rounds.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Bart, that was a figure of speech meaning the 308 typically has far longer barrel life than the 22-250 and 25-06. I have 1500 rounds on some of my rifles that will still take game at 1000 yards. One is a 338-378 wby which again typically has less barrel life than a 308. If I had a 308 winchester that only got 1500 rounds before it needed rebarreling I would never buy another barrel from that company because they are trash.

 

[Bart B]

If I had a 308 winchester that only got 1500 rounds before it needed rebarreling I would never buy another barrel from that company because they are trash.

My comment about a "slight" accuracy fall off meant that accuracy would degrade by only about 10%. That's still good enough for most competitive events, except the Nationals, which is where that axiom comes from. Good shots can detect that much accuracy falloff from shooting off their shoulder.

Schneider barrels are very accurate, but their life with a .308 Win. chamber was in fact about 1500 rounds before they went very noticably sour. I've known several folks that swore by them until they wore out twice as fast as Hart, Obermeyer, or a Kreiger barrel.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I understand what you are saying. I was just using a figure of speech that for the average hunter a 308 barrel would last a long time for the purpose he stated.

 

[rscott5028]

I have direct and recent experience with the quest for an accurate factory rifle.

My first purchase was a Remington Sendero SFII in 300 win mag. The bolt is super super smooth, the exterior fit and finish of the rifle was really nice also. I do not like the grip on the H-S stock that comes on the sendero because its way too fat for my taste ( im about 5foot 7 and my hands just dont go around it very well).

The trigger that came on it was terrible with a capital T. Comperable to the factory triggers on my marlin and savage rimfires. I promptly put a jewell in it and its fantastic. But cost another couple hundred bucks ( this has bearing later on in the post).


Accuracy wasnt too exciting while shooting factory ammo, it was a pretty solid 1.25 to 1.75 inch gun with everything i shot through it. Now i have finally gotten setup and started re-loading for it and It shot less than 1 inch at 100 with just my pressure work up loads and i was not even really trying to shoot well. So im figuring it will easily reach my expectations of .75 or better at 100 yards. Probably much better.

So pretty expensive (about 1300$) by the time I paid for the gun and trigger.





Enter the savage,

Bought a savage model 10 predator in .243 with the accu-trigger. Stock had to be opened up a bit to get it to free-float but that was no big deal. Paint job with the camo dipping had a few white spots on it there the paint didnt take too well and there was some chipping and flaking around the edges of everything, all in all no big deal for a 650$ gun.

The trigger oh my oh my what a trigger, for a factory gun its AMAZING. If my remington sendero had come with an accutrigger i wouldnt have spent the extra money for a jewell. The jewell was more than I needed. The accutrigger breaks pretty clean, hardly notice even the smallest amount of creep. And while the weight of pull is definatly more than what i have my jewell adjusted down to it is light enough to not be an issue on a coyote rifle. Taking into account its a factory trigger on a sub 1000 dollar gun only one word can express how i feel about it. SUPERB taking into account what it is.
Accuracy was ok with factory ammo, i got around 1 in groups with it but didnt try to find a box of factory ammo it liked.


Below is a a 4 shot group I shot with it today while working on a load for my rifle. The wind was gusting to 15-20 mph today and i was having to shoot in between blow's. Off the hood of a jeep. The flyer was a goob move on my part i squeezed one off right as the wind kicked up and blew me around a bit. But the 1-st three shots have sold me for life on savage rifles. It definatly shoots WAY better than I can. And this is with a 139$ bushnell banner 6-18x scope.
Range is 100yds. Total cost of rifle and crappy scope 800 $ or less. Im in love!.

Great points. But, 243 vs 300 WM isn't a straight up comparison either.

 

[Bishop]

Great points. But, 243 vs 300 WM isn't a straight up comparison either.

Your right of course. The trigger being better and having the same or better accuracy in my not so experienced hands were the main points i wanted to convey. All for less money for a factory rifle. I should have been a little clearer i was judt a bit excited.

 

[Jinx-)]

Looks like you didn't get lucky with Remington, in my case I have better luck with them, Savage just won't shoot, I just send 12 LRP back to the factory, looks like I'm getting replacement, and if return is a shooter, I might change my opinion about Savage, right now its 1.5 - 2 MOA straight out of the box. Remington on the other hand shoot less then 1/2 MOA, it was 3/4 MOA shooter with factory ammo, with hadloads its capable of 1/4"@100. Howa, the one I got also had problem and required barrel replacement 3 - 6"@100 with factory ammo and about 2" with handloads

 

[Bishop]

I may still have a superb shooter in my Sendero, still have to do some work on the load. Gosh I hope so the action itself is sooooo smooth, and the jewel trigger is nice as well. I really want it to shoot and im going to give it all i got trying to figure out what she likes. Its going to get a brake put on it within the next few weeks, I just cant see that recoil being anything but detrimental.

Perhaps a month from now I will be amazed at what my sendero will do, there are surely many folks out there who get phenomenal accuracy out of the bonyard stock sendero's. I sincerely hope I will end up being one of those people. Believe me I "want" it to shoot great.gun)I have to be carefull and not say anything bad about how any of my guns shoot within earshot of my wife. Or i get the "you've spent all that money......" which leads to me inevitably cutting my eyes towards the thousand dollar plus elliptical setting in the corner, followed by me running for my life! and calling pizza hut for dinner

 

[Jinx-)]

well, you don't have to keep bonnyard stock, you can always get something nice,like laminate or synthetic with bedding block ;-)

 

[bigfellascott]

I've got a Howa 22.250HB that is absolutely brilliant! very very accurate and consistently shoots .5" or less and quite regularly gets .3" @ 100m. The first group I ever shot with it was a .5" @ 50m, using Remington Corelokt 55gn ammo. I have since started handloads and it shoots amazingly, the best group to date is a .317" and has also shot many .3" to .5" @ 100m so I can certainly recommend them. I also have friends who have Howas and they are also great shooters.

I have also started shooting groups @ 200m with the best group so far a .5" for 4 shots, unfortunately I rushed the last shot! to blow the group out to 1" which is still fine for a hunting rifle.

This one has a Boyds Ross Thumbhole Stock on it and the only other thing I did was get the trigger lightened to around 8-10oz and zero creep. Very light and just beautiful to use, best trigger I have ever used and I used a few over the years.

 

[bigfellascott]

Some more pics of the Howa 22.250HB

The Scope is a Zeiss 6.5-20x50 with 20plex reticle

base and rings are Leupold

Stock is the Boyds Laminated Thumbhole in the colour "Pepper"

Total cost approx $2050 AUD (Australian Dollars)

This rifle is mainly for varminting foxes, wild dogs, rabbits etc out to max of 400m.

 

[Azshios84]

Well,
I bought the Howa 1500 HBVT in .308. Now saving for the Vortex scope =D Ill post pictures when I get the whole rig set up. Thanks for the all the replies and information. =)