I want a legit argument against an old trusted cartridge

[436]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

It seems like what your saying is that the 7mm Rem Mag works for you and your hunting applications, why even have the conversation'..., it's a traffic roundabout no clear winner conversation, the guys on the left and right side of the .284/7mm caliber will never yield I'd say with the meat rifle/caliber you know. Good luck with the conversation... PS: I'm sure, if nothing else, it will be interesting when the anti 7mm guys jump on it.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

If you were going to compete with your 7 mag I could argue till blue in the face, but as far as a hunting cartridge you not going to find anything better. I will say that as far as a 7mag vs a 300wm the recoil, To me, is negligible.

They both kick like Mules.!

 

[Jammer65]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 7 mag. If you do decide to step up to a heavier round, I would personally go with the 300PRC over the 300 WM. The WM has a very short neck and seating bullets to fit into a magazine consumes a lot of powder capacity. The PRC is designed to seat the bullets further out and still achieve magazine limited lengths. I own and shoot a 300WM, but when it is ready for another barrel, it is going to be be converted to the PRC.

 

[chickm1]

Yeah, I depend on the 7mm08, but bought a 7mmRUM, when it came out, due to the velocity and trajectory. Then, found out about the loading issues and extremely short barrel life. I could never find a load that shot as well as the expensive Remington Premier ammo, then, Remington discontinued the ammo, only to replace it with sub-standard ammo with the same velocity as the 7RM. I am done with all the ultra mags and ultra velocity craze. But, the marketing did get me for a while.

 

[coueshunterstw]

Years ago I went with the 7mm STW I could buy it over the counter, it was fast and had the 7mm BC. No animal I have hit with this cartridge has run got away.

 

[nicholasjohn]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

I think the 7mm Magnum is the best-balanced cartridge for heavy bullets of that diameter. If you use lighter bullets, it's case capacity is a bit larger than necessary, but more velocity is never a bad thing. The heavy bullets is where it shines, though, and now that they are making .284-diameter bullets in 180-195 grain weights, what more could a guy ask for ? Since you don't mind spending $$$$ on rifles, barrels, etc., maybe a 7mm Magnum that is rifled & throated for the longer & heavier bullet bullets would be your best bet. I haven't compared the numbers between the 7mm heavies and the 30 calibers, but I'll bet they aren't far apart.

I used to use a 7mm years ago, and it was a step up for me from the 308 I had been shooting for years. I didn't notice any difference between the two on game ( deer & elk.) What seemed to make the difference was the bullet weight, not the cartridge. When I used 150's, they were both the same. When I used 180's ( in the 308 ) and 175's in the 7mm, they were both somewhat better - but still the same as each other. I liked the trajectory of the 7mm better, of course, because 180's in the smaller cartridge just didn't move out fast enough. I found my perfect compromise in the 30-06, using 180-grain bullets. Imagine that. Among the three, deer & elk can't tell the difference. All three cartridges do the job. If I was going to do the long range thing, though, I would definitely lean heavily toward the 7mm Magnum - not so much for the trajectory, but for the wind drift.

Since you are well experienced with the 7mm Magnum, I would recommend that you explore the increased performance of the newer bullets with that same cartridge and go out and shoot some animals. You can then ponder all this stuff over an elk burger with your buddies.

 

[Gater]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

I had a 7mm mag great for antelope mule deer and black bear one shot one kill but when it came time for elk I took a 5x5 in Wyoming using 175 gr spbt Serbia game kings first shot right behind the right shoulder you could see him lock up but didn't go down second shot same place same results he hadn't taken a step so knowing how much ground an elk can cover wounded or not the third shot hit him in the spine down he went with out taking a step the butcher at the meat locker gave me two of the bullets back his words where if you had waited he would have went down I saw what happen to others that shot once elk went down they relaxed high fives and all then the next thing that elk was up and hauling *** on his way to Montana after and a late night horse ride they found him but that 7mm mag is now a .300 win mag they go in one shoulder and out the other but that's my experience

 

[Bill Poole]

I haven't seen a 7 mag in the black rifle form yet. I think that's what all the kids want now a days.....

Just cuz you haven't look for it:
https://onlylongrange.com/bn36x3-long-range-300-win-mag-7mm-rem-mag/

just responding to the black rifle question.

as to the original question:
Elk can't read the headstamp on the cartridge!

Poole

 

[Pointman]

I lean towards shot placement as the most critical component of the hunt. More gsame has been taken by the "obsolete"cartridges than the new "hot rods". That being said, I do own a 6.5 CM and a 338LM for steel. My hunting days are over, too much damage from my time in the Nam. Basically, whatever you're comfortable shooting and can control the placement will do the job. I do sometimes question the current "facination" with shooting game in thre net ZIP code. Granted, sheep and goats are an exception for extreme long range.

 

[Shootin4fun]

See Natan Foster's comments on the 7RM.

 

[rbTanzan]

Remember what you learned between the 300WM and 7mmRM. In hunting application the are bsically equal.

So . . . Consider the poor man's magnum: the amazing 270 Win. Less recoil than the 7mm, same results, especially with modern bullets. If you build your own, try a 8" twist. For accuracy out of the box, try a Tikka in 270. You will enjoy the carry on the mountain.

If you want more, the 338 waits. And the animals appreciate the difference some of the time.

 

[nicholasjohn]

When you bring up RECOIL in a conversation about 7mm RM vs 300 WM ...... I lose my lunch with disgust....

Where did all the men go in the shooting sports ? weenies

A lot of "real men" have a re-built shoulder joint like mine. ( I actually have a perfect pair of them, so switching to left-handed shooting won't help.) We appreciate rifles that don't put our fancy orthopedic work at risk. The 30-06 level of recoil is about all I can handle, as per doctor's orders. I wish it were otherwise, but that's what the deal. So, I use my 30-06 and like it. I bring home just as many animals as I ever have - I just don't have bragging rights on being the most macho guy out there. By the way - there's an old joke among pilots about the guys with the big wrist watches. It may have an application here as well …….

 

[Dell]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

You'll get no argument from me on the 7 mag. It's been my go to for many years. I own a 300 WM, .260 Rem. Couple .308's and a 6.5 CM. All custom builds with great glass. All half MOA rifles (or I wouldn't keep them). My 7mag is my number one hunting rifle. It has never let me down. Many hours of shooting it (on second barrel) load development (180 Berger's for now). Hits on the mile target in our local LR steel matches as well. Killed elk to 600 with it, several antelope and mule deer in the 400-500 yard range. The rifle never let me down, and like you, I just keep going back to it. Like I said, no argument from me.

 

[Gcan]

I started off my hunting career with a 7mm Remington Magnum. It never failed me but eventually I was bitten by the "bigger and better" bug. I switched to a 300 win mag which I believed would serve me well with a little more knock down power, if I ever made it to Alaska to hunt big bears.

I shortly realized elk, dear, antalope, and black bear don't know the difference between the 300 and 7mm... it's more about shot placement and the type of bullet being used.

So I went back the the 7mm because of less recoil and better wind fighting capabilities.

Then I was bitten by the "newest shinniest" bug. I picked the next cartridge by going backwards. I wanted the highest BC, highest SD bullet made, which was at the time the 7mm 195 Berger EOL. Then found the cartridge which would push it the fastest and flattest, the 28 Nosler (besides the Allen mags and other wildcats).

After messing with the 28 Nosler for probably 2 rifles, 5 barrels, maybe 2000 rounds within the last year... I don't know it's worth it.

The 7mm Remington Magnum will kill anything. It's cheap. It doesn't kick bad with a muzzle brake. I could hunt around the world and if I lose my hand loads, I can find ammo. I believe it is the best all around, do anything, caliber ever made.

It has better ballistics and more power than all the small target cartridges (6mm, 6.5mm Creedmoor and x47 Lapua, 6.5- 284, the BR range of cartridges, and 308 win). Yet is far cheaper, less recoil, more available and easier on barrels than the "bigger and better" or "new and shiny" cartridges like 26 and 28 Nosler, 300 rum, 6.5-300 weatherby and the like.

I guess I want a valid argument (I hope you win) as to why any caliber out there is better than the 7 mag, because the more I try new things, the more I get pulled back to my 7.

Chicken or fish? Burger or steak? 300UM or 300PRC?

7mm is a fine round. There are others that are faster, slower, higher bc, lower bc, higher SD. There is nothing out there so stellar vs the 7mm as to make the angels sing and the ponies fart rainbows. The only considerations might be its old tech, not winning any (few) LR accuracy matches, belted case and requires a long action.
None of those considerations are determinant vs any other cartridge.

WSM .270? WSM 300?

You are right bout availability. Other cartridges may have more match accuracy ammo and hunting bullet options available should you run out in Africa.

So I say if you like it and trust it shoot it and be happy.