Choosing bullets Berger's or Barnes

That would depend on the angle of the shot or how much mass is needed to get through. Two diff schools of thought. The highly frangible bullet will create a very large initial wound channel that gets small quickly. Compare that to a bullet that does not expand at all, like and fmj, and there would be a much smaller wound channel from the fmj even though it penetrated further. Then compare that to a bullet like ours that rapidly sheds the nose on impact, creating a large cavity, then retaining enough weight to straight line penetrate the rest of the way through. Also the shape of the retained is important as to how it displaces the soft tissue to create a permanent wound channel. We want a flat frontal area like a flat base bullet shot backwards. This shape displaces perpendicular to the direction of travel better than a rounded mushroom, even though it may be bigger. The shed weight on our bullet is in a few pieces that retain enough weight each that they too usually pass through as well. The shock of the bullet rapidly opening and shedding a big part of animals not traveling after the shot. If the animal recovers from the initial shock and the wound channel is not enough to bleed them out rapidly is when you have animals traveling long distances before they die. The velocity that the bullet is passing through the vital tissue is relative to how large the permanent wound channel is. The more that bullet slows down the less tissue it tears to cause the needed bleeding. The larger the frontal area is in relation to the amount of retained weight causes the rapid slowing of the bullet. If I could make a magic bullet it would deform on impact and then never loose a single fps as it passes through, creating the largest wound channel possible all the way through.

So the actual sq in of destroyed tissue by a bullet that comes all undone and doesn't make it through vs the bullet that properly deforms and does get all the way through could go either way depending on the circumstance of the shot. For me I cover more bases with a bullet designed like ours. I like my chances better on a bad hit or a hit that must cover more distance to get to vitals.

I'll leave the toxic topic alone other than to say there is no good reason to eat lead.
If your petals sheer off, essentially the rest of your bullet is penciling through - I get that is has a flat base and in theory will cause a bigger wake than an FMJ, but it isn't any different than a flat nose target bullet at that point being shot out of a small caliber handgun at a higher velocity - does it really cause more damage than a Barnes that's petals peel back and stay intact spinning and rotating through bone and tissue? It seems the wake of damage cause by the barnes would be significantly greater and also cause a better blood trail for those interested in that sort of thing.
 
Quite a bit of experience here with the barnes LRX line.
Elk - 90 yards to 710 —— dead
Deer - 100 yards to 701 —— dead
Bears - 600 yards to 825 —— dead
Coyotes - 425 yards to 625 —— dead

all fell within 25 yards of impact. GREAT blood trails. All exits!

Works for me.
 
If your petals sheer off, essentially the rest of your bullet is penciling through - I get that is has a flat base and in theory will cause a bigger wake than an FMJ, but it isn't any different than a flat nose target bullet at that point being shot out of a small caliber handgun at a higher velocity - does it really cause more damage than a Barnes that's petals peel back and stay intact spinning and rotating through bone and tissue? It seems the wake of damage cause by the barnes would be significantly greater and also cause a better blood trail for those interested in that sort of thing.
I guess it would take you testing for yourself in order for you to be comfortable. If you are interested in more in depth scientific research you should read the physics paper called Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories. I'll get the link when I have a chance.
 
If your petals sheer off, essentially the rest of your bullet is penciling through - I get that is has a flat base and in theory will cause a bigger wake than an FMJ, but it isn't any different than a flat nose target bullet at that point being shot out of a small caliber handgun at a higher velocity - does it really cause more damage than a Barnes that's petals peel back and stay intact spinning and rotating through bone and tissue? It seems the wake of damage cause by the barnes would be significantly greater and also cause a better blood trail for those interested in that sort of thing.
The wound channels from the Hammer is greater than the Barnes, IMO its the retained velocity along with the blunt front of the shank that makes a wound you can definitely track clean through an animal vs some some other designs ive seen that retain their petals and.slowing down basically just shoving a arrow size hole in them, the petals from the Hammers blend stuff deep as well.
 
That's about my assessment as well. (Post above)I try hard not to trash any manufacture but the experiences I have had with Barnes soured me from coppers. Just felt like I was using a FMJ.
The Hammers do a ton of damage as they shed those petals and they still punch through. The lungs on the bison I killed were goo and the heart all blown apart. I didn't take pictures, I will start from here on. Anyway they have worked well for me and Barnes didn't. That is of course just anecdotal info, but it's what I experienced.
 
For what it is worth, we were not able to achieve this with just any copper. We recycled thousands of pounds of copper that we could not get the reliable terminal performance that we were after. If we had known how hard it would be to get a copper to work the way we wanted I don't think we would have started this venture.
 
I feel like I have derailed this thread enough, so I will bow out. I would not have gotten in if our bullets had not been mentioned. I had no intention of turning the thread into a discussion of our bullets.
 
I feel like I have derailed this thread enough, so I will bow out. I would not have gotten in if our bullets had not been mentioned. I had no intention of turning the thread into a discussion of our bullets.
You're relevant to the mono debate or conversation. Your bullets "work" so do other bullets in different ways. One of these days I'll give yours a shot. If I'm impressed, I'll happily pass that along. I gave up on being hard headed a while back...
 
You're relevant to the mono debate or conversation. Your bullets "work" so do other bullets in different ways. One of these days I'll give yours a shot. If I'm impressed, I'll happily pass that along. I gave up on being hard headed a while back...
Is the purpose of this thread to debate monos, or is it to give opinions, experiences and load data on barnes and bergers? I don't remember the OP even mentioning hammers. Any bullet discussions on LRH are fruitless. The hammer fanatics are way worse than the berger supporters, at least on this site. How many posts was it before somebody screamed Hammer? One? The title of the thread could have been eldx vs eldm and some knucklehead would have come screaming hammer.

to answer the OPs question, the 28 nosler with a heavy berger bullet with a high BC would be tough to beat on Antelope or Mule deer or elk. You shoot the high bc bullets to cheat the wind, which in my opinion is what makes long range hunting a challenge, especially out past 600. The 28 Nosler is made to shoot the 195 bergers - its a match made in heaven.

Also, can we seriously stop with this shooting lead bullets means you are eating the lead and poisoning yourself and others nonsense? Give me a break...
 
Quite a bit of experience here with the barnes LRX line.
Elk - 90 yards to 710 —— dead
Deer - 100 yards to 701 —— dead
Bears - 600 yards to 825 —— dead
Coyotes - 425 yards to 625 —— dead

all fell within 25 yards of impact. GREAT blood trails. All exits!

Works for me.
What .cal are you using what grain bullet
 
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