7mm???

[MudRunner2005]

No 100fps is not worth it. With the high bc bullets we have today that 100fps gain but 500rds less barrel life won't gain you anything appreciable down range.

There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to stacking more powder in a bigger case for the sake of more speed. With the 7's you reach that point with the 7mm STW case. Beyond that the minimal gain simply isn't worth the additional cost.

Run it through any ballistics program you like and you'll see that 100fps at the muzzle is costing way too much for a very minimal gain.

I couldn't have said it any better. Word-for-word.....Perfect.

 

[WildRose]

for a hunting rifle barrel wear is a minor factor. look at Kirby Allen's little 7AM that he shot all kinds of game with, last I heard it was like 10 years old and had 900+ rnds down the pipe? I could be misremembering, but it think it was something like that.

Barrel life is a concern for Target shooting, and so is cost of powder. If someone wants to "plink", look for something that only cooks 30-50 grains at a time!

Some of us actually like to shoot our rifles rather than leave them in the cabinet between hunts.

If all a guy is going to do is sight it in, put it away, and leave it there until time to hunt barrel life is a non factor.

Very few of us however that like to shoot and work hard at improving our skills at long range shooting are going to fit into that category however.

You cannot become proficient at long range shooting without doing a lot of it.

 

[cohunter14]

No 100fps is not worth it. With the high bc bullets we have today that 100fps gain but 500rds less barrel life won't gain you anything appreciable down range.

There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to stacking more powder in a bigger case for the sake of more speed. With the 7's you reach that point with the 7mm STW case. Beyond that the minimal gain simply isn't worth the additional cost.

Run it through any ballistics program you like and you'll see that 100fps at the muzzle is costing way too much for a very minimal gain.

That is a pretty strong opinion. I would love to hear Kirby's thoughts on that, considering his 7AM is bigger than the RUM.

I also just have a hard time believing that there is really a 500 round difference in barrel life between the two. But even if that is true and say you get 750 rounds down a tube in a RUM and 1,250 in a STW, the overall cost per shot increases less than $.25. So with powder, you are talking less than $.30 per round more to send a bullet 100fps quicker. I have a feeling if you offered that to most folks on here in that scenario, they would take that.

When it comes to speed, it seems to me like everyone always wants to push their bullet another 100fps quicker, hence the reason for these guns. Again, just my thoughts and opinions on it. Just seems silly to say it's not worth it for .$30 a round though...

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Some of us actually like to shoot our rifles rather than leave them in the cabinet between hunts.

If all a guy is going to do is sight it in, put it away, and leave it there until time to hunt barrel life is a non factor.

Very few of us however that like to shoot and work hard at improving our skills at long range shooting are going to fit into that category however.

You cannot become proficient at long range shooting without doing a lot of it.

I don't think you can put Kirby into that category. He is probably as proficient at long range shooting as anyone. A person can have more than one rifle and as such he could have a real long range hammer that he gets out now and then but also have another rifle that is a little more practical to shoot for trigger time.

 

[WildRose]

That is a pretty strong opinion. I would love to hear Kirby's thoughts on that, considering his 7AM is bigger than the RUM.

I also just have a hard time believing that there is really a 500 round difference in barrel life between the two. But even if that is true and say you get 750 rounds down a tube in a RUM and 1,250 in a STW, the overall cost per shot increases less than $.25. So with powder, you are talking less than $.30 per round more to send a bullet 100fps quicker. I have a feeling if you offered that to most folks on here in that scenario, they would take that.

When it comes to speed, it seems to me like everyone always wants to push their bullet another 100fps quicker, hence the reason for these guns. Again, just my thoughts and opinions on it. Just seems silly to say it's not worth it for .$30 a round though...

Yes it is a strong opinion and as I pointed out it's not just about dollars and cents.

Again, pick your favorite ballistics calculator and run the numbers, with the kinds of bullets we have today, the net return down range from that extra 100fps is minimal.

Speed in and of itself is but one small factor in effective long range shooting, much less the ability to get a clean kill at long range.

Some people want to own a dragster just because they think it's cool and people like that make people like Kirby a good living.

I certainly don't begrudge Kirby or anyone else for making a living off of that market. He builds a great rifle for people that gives them exactly what they want.

That doesn't change the fact however that there is very minimal gain and quite an additional cost for it.

 

[WildRose]

I don't think you can put Kirby into that category. He is probably as proficient at long range shooting as anyone. A person can have more than one rifle and as such he could have a real long range hammer that he gets out now and then but also have another rifle that is a little more practical to shoot for trigger time.

Kirby like the rest of us didn't get that proficient without a lot of shooting.

The attempts to somehow pit Kirby and I against each other are juvenile and not going to get anyone very far. I have nothing but respect for him.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I couldn't have said it any better. Word-for-word.....Perfect.

I saw in another thread where you were trying to aquire 300 RUM brass from another member for some wildcat projects you had in mind. Just curios what cals those were in. There is already a 7, 300, 338 and 375 in RUM chamberings.

That pretty much leaves the smaller calibers for anything new and you would have even less in returns for case capacity than the 7.

BTW, Kirby just recently tested RL33 in his 338 AX which is an improved 338 LM. The RL33 gave him 130 fps more velocity than his current Retumbo load. Another member got about a 150 fps increase in his 6-284. RL33 will be an excellent powder in the 7 RUM.

 

[cohunter14]

Yes it is a strong opinion and as I pointed out it's not just about dollars and cents.

Again, pick your favorite ballistics calculator and run the numbers, with the kinds of bullets we have today, the net return down range from that extra 100fps is minimal.

Speed in and of itself is but one small factor in effective long range shooting, much less the ability to get a clean kill at long range.

Some people want to own a dragster just because they think it's cool and people like that make people like Kirby a good living.

I certainly don't begrudge Kirby or anyone else for making a living off of that market. He builds a great rifle for people that gives them exactly what they want.

That doesn't change the fact however that there is very minimal gain and quite an additional cost for it.

If 100fps is minimal, then why shoot the STW over the 7Mag?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Most of those wildcats are not for full-length RUM brass, and will require cutting down. Some of which will be highly improved upon versions of very large bore.

I have my reasons for wanting RUM brass, and the main reason is because they are not belted. I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Kirby like the rest of us didn't get that proficient without a lot of shooting.

The attempts to somehow pit Kirby and I against each other are juvenile and not going to get anyone very far. I have nothing but respect for him.

First off, there is no attempt to pit you and Kirby against anyone or each other. If you think otherwise it's your imagination.

Second, you are exactly right. Kirby has done A LOT of shooting which is exactly my point. He also owns a few overbore long range hammers that he doesn't necessarily shoot very much. But he still owns them and hunts with them at long ranges.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Most of those wildcats are not for full-length RUM brass.

I have my reasons for wanting RUM brass, and the main reason is because they are not belted. I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

If they are for shorter cases then there is the 338 RUM. If that's still too long, there is the Dakota cases which are based off the same parent as the RUMs and comes with better brass than the RUMS. Shortening cases is no easy or trivial task.

 

[MudRunner2005]

If they are for shorter cases then there is the 338 RUM. If that's still too long, there is the Dakota cases which are based off the same parent as the RUMs and comes with better brass than the RUMS. Shortening cases is no easy or trivial task.

I'm aware of the issues. I will certainly be having to do alot of necking-down for some of them. Also, I'm sure wall thickness will be an issue, too. But I'll deal with that when things come to pass. Right now they're just ideas I have drawn up.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I'm aware of the issues. I will certainly be having to do alot of necking-down for some of them. Also, I'm sure wall thickness will be an issue, too. But I'll deal with that when things come to pass. Right now they're just ideas I have drawn up.

I just thought it odd that you were planning wildcats off the RUM and also thought the diminishing returns of the 7 RUM were not worth the trouble.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I just thought it odd that you were planning wildcats off the RUM and also thought the diminishing returns of the 7 RUM were not worth the trouble.

LOL! I could see where that might be a bit confusing. But always know that there is a method to my madness. I think about alot of things most people overlook, and try to figure out a way around them.