600yards and in, how important are bubble levels?

[snox801]

Ever met anyone at the range who shoots a 3" group at 100 yds and says "good enough"? It's no coincidence they didn't have a bubble level. The bubble level wouldn't have made any difference in their shooting ability because in their mind it was already adequate. See any correlations to some of the opinions posted here???

I don't have a dog in the fight as I have and use them not all the time but I know guys on here could outshoot me level or not.
That being said the answer is clear he doesn't need it for that distance.
Plus I've also seen the guy at the range shoot tiny little groups then get on a giant Mulie only to screw up on his shot with clutter. Range, wind, level, all these things can also be a hinder.
I'd say it's worth having but not needed at said range

 

[C1Pro]

How important is a bubble level for 600 yard shots? At what range do they really become necessary? Thanks!

How important is a bubble level for 600 yard shots? At what range do they really become necessary? Thanks!

Doing trig on this, if you have a mid range trajectory of 88.7 in and a 1° cant you can expect the projectile to move just over 3 inches in the direction of the cant, at 600 yards.

 

[Treeslug]

Really,...... I'll just keep guessing,

Hey, Butter Bean, you have to remember that you have a lot of muscle to memorize those kinds of things with. 257Tony may not be as big or as strong as you. His muscle memory may not work all that well compared to yours!

 

[257Tony]

Doing trig on this, if you have a mid range trajectory of 88.7 in and a 1° cant you can expect the projectile to move just over 3 inches in the direction of the cant, at 600 yards.

I just can't figure out why anyone would want to willingly add that type of variable to their shot, when it's so easily fixed. Maybe I'm the only one here who can't eyeball dead perfect when laying on a 30 degree side slope?

 

[Treeslug]

I just can't figure out why anyone would want to willingly add that type of variable to their shot, when it's so easily fixed. Maybe I'm the only one here who can't eyeball dead perfect when laying on a 30 degree side slope?

Nope, you are not the only one here that can't eyeball dead perfect when laying on a 30-degree side slope. You just don't have as much muscle memory as Butter Bean, or as much practice using your muscles as Butter Bean. It is not your fault. Go ahead and use that wonderful little invention. There is nothing wrong with new technology.

 

[xsn10s]

How important is a bubble level for 600 yard shots? At what range do they really become necessary? Thanks!

I guess going out and shooting at 600 yards and getting first round hits is an indicator whether you need one or not. You could purposely cant the rifle until you notice it and fire for effect.

 

[smokey3]

So how do you make sure you are level without a level?

I just look at my reticle, muscle memory I guess

Yes muscle memory, kinda just instinctive. I do like the levels when hunting in the mountains though, due to the slope of the terrain, sometimes will throw me off a bit more than I like.

 

[smokey3]

I was introduced to the bubble just a while back. makes perfect sense. If you do mount the scope level with the rifle, it doesn't help if you cant the setup. I don't use a level when putting up targets, so they can be tilted. If you line up crosshairs with the target, you will be canted and not notice it, til you see your bullets going off to one side. The further out the target or game, the more pronounced it becomes; especially if the target is a tiny prairie dog past 100 yds!
Putting the level on the scope is a matter of personal preference, but I like mine on the left and further out on the scope tube so I can see it with my left eye as my right eye focuses on the target. More you use it, the easier it becomes. I promise you, you will notice a good difference, especially when group shooting even at 100 yds. Yeah, small there, but then you will realize that errant shot was not you , but a canted rifle.

If you cant the rifle, would that not still be you not doing your part correct?

 

[smokey3]

Any time you dial a scope for elevation, you need some way of making sure it's level/plumb. Even at 600, you add in being off level, and maybe missing your wind call a little, it's easily enough to cause a bad hit. Being an accurate long range hunter is all about removing as many variables as possible, using a bubble level is one way to completely remove that particular variable. I don't care how good you think your eye is, or how much "muscle memory" you have, you get into the mountains where nothing is plumb or level, you're just guessing.

This video does a great job of demonstrating why you need one.

Why Every Rifle Needs an Anti Cant Bubble Level - YouTube

Perfectly stated

 

[Ol' Red]

I won't argue that a level can improve shooting or at least get you you familiar with what level really is. I don't use one under 400 yards when in the field. I keep thinking about Billy Dixon and that shot at Adobe Walls. I know he did not have a level. I'm not that good.

 

[smokey3]

As stated earlier at 200 300 whatever it may not matter but at extended ranges it definitely does so where do u draw the line. Also if an extended range shot presents itself and I'm hyped up my shot

OK, I have a question about bubble levels on scopes when hunting. I have bought two levels and after mounting one, I looked at it sticking out from the scope and wondered how likely it was to get knocked out of alignment when being transported or carried while hunting.
I understand the value of one for benchrest shooting since the rifle is handled with "kid gloves" both in transporting and shooting.
But when hunting the handling can get a lot rougher. In fact on this site there are numerous comments about scopes being knocked around. Now I would be hanging a little 'lever' that if bumped will either break or will torque the scope.
Because of that worry, I took it off and now have two bubble levels taking up space in my gun room (aka wife's art room LOL).
Comments?

I'll give them a home
process is going to go off of muscle memory and I definitely want my bubble level to be a part of the process

 

[NWmissouriman]

Personally, I don't think you need one for hunting under 600 yards. 600 has always seemed like that magic number to me where once you get there and beyond you really need to have your ducks in a row to make a good shot. For what it's worth I have an articulating flatline ops level on my long range rifle and I really like it. It folds over the scope and out of the way if you don't want to use it.

 

[Ol' Red]

Personally, I don't think you need one for hunting under 600 yards. 600 has always seemed like that magic number to me where once you get there and beyond you really need to have your ducks in a row to make a good shot. For what it's worth I have an articulating flatline ops level on my long range rifle and I really like it. It folds over the scope and out of the way if you don't want to use it.

Agreed

 

[Buster Hemlock]

Just caught up on reading through all the posts. My recommendation is still the same, do the math and decide for yourself. However.... something else that hasn't come up is learning to call wind correctly both as a shooter and a spotter. When first learning you figure out what mirage looks like, how the dust or snow is moving, leaves, trees , brush, etc..... for a given mph of wind is a bit by trial and error sending rounds and seeing where they hit and if your call was right. Maybe your using a wind meter at your location but that only gives you wind at your location not in between you and the target so reading the wind down range through an optic is important. So where I'm going with this is if your optic is canted you could be adding or subtracting on your wind hold and thinking that there is more or less wind down range than there actually is and learning or learned to read the wind wrong by a margin from having the scope slightly canted. Just something else to think on.

Edited to fix some grammar, dang bourbon will get ya.