177 grn Hammer Bullets

[darrindlh]

Hey,
I have a savage ultralight chambered in 28 nosler. I currently have a load worked up for the 195 Bergers. I want to work up some loads with the 177 Hammer Hunters. I have 3 lbs of Vihtavuori 20n29. Does anyone have experience with this powder? I know its not ideal but its what is available. Thank you

Darrin

 

[Dmagna]

Hey,
I have a savage ultralight chambered in 28 nosler. I currently have a load worked up for the 195 Bergers. I want to work up some loads with the 177 Hammer Hunters. I have 3 lbs of Vihtavuori 20n29. Does anyone have experience with this powder? I know its not ideal but its what is available. Thank you

Darrin

I would not use the 177 in that rifle. I doubt it will stabilize in the 8.5 barrel

 

[chav0_12]

I agree with that. Go down some weight and it'll scream. The 177s are as long or a tad longer than the 195s.

 

[dougduey]

Listen to what the others said, you MUST pay attention to twist rate with Hammer Bullets or they won't stabilize. Hammers shoot better when you up the velocity and spin them faster. Go down in weight to a 9 twist bullet and you'll be happy.
Just FYI, I run the 177 in my 8 twist 7 STW with RL26 and they shoot tiny groups.

 

[darrindlh]

Okay gentleman, living here in Idaho I am shooting at a minimum elevation of 4650. I hunt much higher. My twist rate is 1:8.4, typing all the parameters of the 177 bullet, the length of 1.665 into the twist stability calculator Berger has, i get a stability factor of 1.55. I need to be above 1.5 . At my elevation where i live, I will stabilize this bullet. So now we got that out of the way.. has anyone or does anyone have experience witn 20n29 powder. I believe it burns like H50bmg.

Darrin

 

[chav0_12]

Okay gentleman, living here in Idaho I am shooting at a minimum elevation of 4650. I hunt much higher. My twist rate is 1:8.4, typing all the parameters of the 177 bullet, the length of 1.665 into the twist stability calculator Berger has, i get a stability factor of 1.55. I need to be above 1.5 . At my elevation where i live, I will stabilize this bullet. So now we got that out of the way.. has anyone or does anyone have experience witn 20n29 powder. I believe it burns like H50bmg.

Darrin

I know Steve recommended I use N570. I don't have and haven't seen N570 in years. I told him I had 8133 and Retumbo, he recommended 8133 of those two. I would think those two powders are too slow.

You're at 1.55, but you might not have great terminal performance. You'd be better suited to dropping down in weight with a 1:8.4 twist.

 

[dougduey]

I understand that you WANT to shoot the 177, but listen to chav0_12, he's spot on about your twist rate. I have extensive experience with Hammer bullets and I've come to know Steve Davis pretty darn well, and the one thing that has to be paid attention to is the recommended twist rate. Again, Hammer Bullets like to be run at high velocities and spun as much as possible. All the testing shows they perform as expected or better when you do those things. Light and fast has become the mantra with Hammer Bullets. Give Steve a call and see what he says, but I'm sure it will be the same thing we are telling you.
As far as your powder, you're in the burn rate of 50bmg or RL33. You will be better served with something around H1000 burn rate. I think20n29 would probably work fine, but don't think you'll get optimal performance

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Okay gentleman, living here in Idaho I am shooting at a minimum elevation of 4650. I hunt much higher. My twist rate is 1:8.4, typing all the parameters of the 177 bullet, the length of 1.665 into the twist stability calculator Berger has, i get a stability factor of 1.55. I need to be above 1.5 . At my elevation where i live, I will stabilize this bullet. So now we got that out of the way.. has anyone or does anyone have experience witn 20n29 powder. I believe it burns like H50bmg.

Darrin

Elevation helps the bullets fly but has nothing to do with terminal performance. We have learned to adapt the Miller formula to the longest lower density copper bullets by using standard atmosphere at sea level to calculate minimum required twist for the given bullet. The longer for caliber the bullets are the more important this is. If you are just shooting targets, I don't care. Terminal performance is the most important aspect to our hunting bullets.

Pushing the twist rate for any bullet will cause you to have poor terminal performance. Tumbling bullets after impact sometimes work great and others they are terrible.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I used N570 and Reloader 26 in a 7RM with the 177. 8 twist at sea level, on paper it looked good, targets were round holes, so I was comfortable with them at hunting altitude. Those are gone now, as is the rifle. If I was going to do it again, I would do the 169gr. You would lose nothing to the 177. But the 131s really flew...

Vihtavuori lists N170 and N570. The burn rate is slower, but their chart showed a little less energy witht the 20N29 vs the N170. I think you would be safe to start at with the same low end weight and load up to pressure.

Energy content (J/g)

N110	N120	N130	N133	N135	N140	N150	N160	N165	N170	24N41	20N29
3950	3700	3750	3600	3550	3700	3750	3650	3500	3700	3700	3600

This is for a 7 RUM, but case capcity is close to a 28 Nosler.

7mm RUM

0.284

1.0666

2.85

.28 Nosler

0.284

0.9635

2.59

7 RUM

175	Swift	A-Frame	3.602	N170	81.2	85.0	2887	2999
175	Swift	A-Frame	3.602	N570	81.9	89.8	2864	3133

 

[RB II]

I shoot the 169 HH in my 28N with 8.4 TW using N570. A little over 3200 fps. They are very stable. Rolled a big Nilgai cow at a little over 300 yds.
When considering components/loads, I prefer to err on the side of great performance vs struggling to "make" a bullet shoot in a rifle. Components are too expensive and scarce these days to stretch the ragged edge of the limits.

 

[littlebighorn]

I shoot the 177 HH in my 28 Nosler with outstanding performance (accuracy and terminal performance), but my rifle is a 1:8 twist.
Mine loves RL 33, although I am down to my last 1lb can and I can't find any Alliant powders anywhere. I hear N570 is also a proven performer in that cartridge and I have seen it available recently.
If I were starting over with mine, I'd probably drop down to the 169, or maybe even lighter. I've seen light fast Hammers do amazing things.
My 28 with Hammers has been awesome. I hope yours is as well.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I shoot the 177 HH in my 28 Nosler with outstanding performance (accuracy and terminal performance), but my rifle is a 1:8 twist.
Mine loves RL 33, although I am down to my last 1lb can and I can't find any Alliant powders anywhere. I hear N570 is also a proven performer in that cartridge and I have seen it available recently.
If I were starting over with mine, I'd probably drop down to the 169, or maybe even lighter. I've seen light fast Hammers do amazing things.
My 28 with Hammers has been awesome. I hope yours is as well.

N570 has been our go to in the 28n with any bullet weight down to 143g HH.

 

[ButterBean]

Okay gentleman, living here in Idaho I am shooting at a minimum elevation of 4650. I hunt much higher. My twist rate is 1:8.4, typing all the parameters of the 177 bullet, the length of 1.665 into the twist stability calculator Berger has, i get a stability factor of 1.55. I need to be above 1.5 . At my elevation where i live, I will stabilize this bullet. So now we got that out of the way.. has anyone or does anyone have experience witn 20n29 powder. I believe it burns like H50bmg.

Darrin

I'm gonna be blunt here, You have already been told by several that it won't work and I agree, I don't care what the Berger calculator say's "It wont work" and your powder choice is entirely to slow of a burn rate regardless.
Now with that being said I'll be glad to help but you'll need to clear you head

 

[darrindlh]

Thank you for all your replies! Im going to stick with the Berger 195's. I didn't come on here asking if the 177 hammers would work in my gun! I ALREADY KNOW they will!! I come on here for a starting load and if a certain powder was to slow or not!!
Mr. Lindsey thank you for your help, and thank you for answering my question.



Darrin