7-300 or 28 nosler

[Alex Wheeler]

Lots of guys neck size too. Its about pressures. If your running the pressure high enough to expand that part of the case and you dont size it you will have a problem. It is a fact that the fl dies do not size that part of the case. Running 65k psi and not sizing part of the case does not work for long. There just isnt anything more I can say on this subject.

 

[WildRose]

I own 2 belted reamers, 300 wm and 7 mag. I do not plan to get anymore.

Just a thought Alex but is he full length resizing every time? Long ago I went to only partial resizing and then to neck sizing only with most of my rifles and only doing the FL resizing on about every third loading or if I found them starting to require some effort to close the bolt properly.

I've noticed very little or no problem with either my full customs or my factory rifles since I started this regime back in the eighties or early nineties and it sure seems to extend the brass life of both the belted and non belted cases.

It does require that you segregate your brass for each rifle you're loading for but I don't find that to be much of a problem or inconvenience.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I do the same as Rose... Belted and non-belted. Neck-size only, till I get resistance on bolt close, then FL resize once. Then neck-size until resistance again. Then continue this pattern until they need to be replaced.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just a thought Alex but is he full length resizing every time? Long ago I went to only partial resizing and then to neck sizing only with most of my rifles and only doing the FL resizing on about every third loading or if I found them starting to require some effort to close the bolt properly.

I've noticed very little or no problem with either my full customs or my factory rifles since I started this regime back in the eighties or early nineties and it sure seems to extend the brass life of both the belted and non belted cases.

It does require that you segregate your brass for each rifle you're loading for but I don't find that to be much of a problem or inconvenience.

That tells the story. Low pressure loads. If you can neck size your not running high pressures.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I dont want to take this thread off topic, but there are many reasons I would never neck size and always fl size every time.

 

[MudRunner2005]

That tells the story. Low pressure loads. If you can neck size your not running high pressures.

You're trying to say that you can't neck-size high pressure loads? You can't be serious. I run my stuff so hot I've had multiple 7mm STW case-head separations on the 2nd firing. And even disintegrated a primer in my .25-06 AI, literally, there was NO primer pieces anywhere, and it left a perfect case head imprint on my bolt face. I had to take it back to the gunsmith to have it magnafluxed to make sure it didn't crack the action or barrel...

.25-06 AI

7mm STW

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You're trying to say that you can't neck-size high pressure loads? You can't be serious. I run my stuff so hot I've had multiple 7mm STW case-head separations on the 2nd firing. And even disintegrated a primer in my .25-06 AI, had to take it back to the gunsmith to have it magnafluxed to make sure it didn't crack the action or barrel...

Ok, so first case head separations are not from over pressure, usually it is caused from setting the shoulder back too far which causes the case to stretch and thin just above the web. The 25-06 was an obvious overcharge. You dont "run them that hot".
The way it works is, under pressure things stretch. The chamber expands as well as the front ring of the receiver. The steel does not yield but the brass does. After the pressure drops the steel returns to original form while the brass does not. Thats why you get stiff bolt lift. Thats why when you run high pressures you cant rechamber a fired case. And yes, if you can neck size you are not running high pressure. Unless your forcing the bolt on tight cases.
I dont think I want any more of your reloading advice after reading you last post. Many in competition run over 70k psi routinely and no one blows case heads. Thats poor reloading technique, and dangerous to the people around you.

 

[metal308]

The 7mm interesting caliber, working with lower pressure and yet performing quite well

 

[WildRose]

That tells the story. Low pressure loads. If you can neck size your not running high pressures.

Well that's not the case either. I'm running at, near, or slightly over published loads in everything.

In the belted cases I ran H870 until I no longer could then moved to H1000 until the last couple of years I started running RL23&26. With the Rum I played around with RL33 but mostly H1000 then 23&26 and now pretty much exclusively 26.

I run these in three each 7mm STW's, 300wm's, and 300 Rum's.

 

[WildRose]

Ok, so first case head separations are not from over pressure, usually it is caused from setting the shoulder back too far which causes the case to stretch and thin just above the web. The 25-06 was an obvious overcharge. You dont "run them that hot".
The way it works is, under pressure things stretch. The chamber expands as well as the front ring of the receiver. The steel does not yield but the brass does. After the pressure drops the steel returns to original form while the brass does not. Thats why you get stiff bolt lift. Thats why when you run high pressures you cant rechamber a fired case. And yes, if you can neck size you are not running high pressure. Unless your forcing the bolt on tight cases.
I dont think I want any more of your reloading advice after reading you last post. Many in competition run over 70k psi routinely and no one blows case heads. Thats poor reloading technique, and dangerous to the people around you.

That just isn't accurate. Even when properly full length resizing you get case thinning and eventual failure from the excess stretching and resizing and it happens faster than with neck sizing.

In both instances, the cartridges had exhibited the bright line ahead of the cartridge web that signals incipient separation.

Case head separation is caused by the firing and resizing process which requires the case to stretch and then be re-compressed. Full-length sizing works the brass more than neck sizing by pushing the shoulder back to allow for easy chambering at the cost of more case stretch as it re-fills the chamber back to its headspace dimension.

http://blog.westernpowders.com/2015/07/case-head-separation-causes-and-cures/

As stated above, the full length resizing process accelerates and aggravates the problem, not the other way around. It allows for more stretch with each firing thus much more quickly causing the "thin spot".

With neck sized brass the entire case is stretched just once and you're not then working it again and again causing the failure.

Additionally neck sizing has been proven to improve accuracy as you get a "custom fit" to your chamber from each round on the first firing.

My conclusion from this testing is that I will deburr and neck size all of my reloads for these rifles since they appear to increase the accuracy by 31 to 35%. Neck sizing alone was beneficial, but I would not have seen a significant improvement without also deburring the flash hole. This testing also gives me some hint of the benefits of using a better brand of brass instead of the least expensive brand.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/neck_vs_full_resizing.htm

 

[MudRunner2005]

Ok, so first case head separations are not from over pressure, usually it is caused from setting the shoulder back too far which causes the case to stretch and thin just above the web. The 25-06 was an obvious overcharge. You dont "run them that hot".
The way it works is, under pressure things stretch. The chamber expands as well as the front ring of the receiver. The steel does not yield but the brass does. After the pressure drops the steel returns to original form while the brass does not. Thats why you get stiff bolt lift. Thats why when you run high pressures you cant rechamber a fired case. And yes, if you can neck size you are not running high pressure. Unless your forcing the bolt on tight cases.
I dont think I want any more of your reloading advice after reading you last post. Many in competition run over 70k psi routinely and no one blows case heads. Thats poor reloading technique, and dangerous to the people around you.

I'm pretty sure I know how guns, cartridges, ammunition, and metals work... I've also been reloading for many years, and my technique is just fine. You keep talking down to everyone, then try to explain things that are very common knowledge, as if other people don't know them, but then you say you take our reloading advice. So, which is it? Do you already know everything, or do you take our advice because you're still a novice?

Case/head separations CAN be caused by very large pressure spikes, causing the weak-point in the case to be exposed by separating there. They can also be caused by a chamber cut too deep/headspacing issue, and also from brass that was drawn with a thin web.

The .25-06 AI, I backed it down 1/2 a grain, and that's where I run them at. So yes, I DO run them nearly that hot.

You can take my advice or not, doesn't make a crap to me. I NEVER recommend anyone running the pressures I do, and have stated many times I run my rifles hard. And I very very rarely give out load data for that reason. So, while you're on kick explaining the general mechanics of reloading to people who already know how it works, I think it might be best for you to take one last bit of advice and keep learning. Nobody will ever know everything, I know I don't, and never will...But that doesn't stop me from continuously trying to learn all I can.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

So a little back ground on me. I stated shooting 1k Br some years ago, was successful, still hold 2 world records, build rifles for a living. NO ONE neck sizes any longer, FL sizing has proven more accurate. Do not take my word for it, show up to a Benchrest or F-class match and ask. Its been this way for years. If you full length size properly you will never seen a case head separation. I usually retire brass with the barrel but guys will routinely get over 30-50 reloads on a FL sized case before primer pocket give out or they just toss them. On 30 Nosler I squeeze the shoulder .003", the base .0005" and push the shoulder back .002". Cases will last forever, and those numbers are something every loader should know if they are fl sizing. Your both talking about old ideas and poor sizing techniques. And no, that separation was not from pressure, the split is in the chamber where it was supported. Thats from too much shoulder set back. An no, you dont "run it" 1/2 grain under the point the primer falls out. I worry about you giving anyone advice. Im sharing facts, not my ideas or opinions, sorry if I sound like Im talking down. I will back out of this thread, I dont want to ruin it for the OP. Happy to carry on in a new one or PM

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm %100 with @Alex on this.

Even though I neck size some cases, I am changing this. BR cartridges are FL sized.

I had a case separation issues with 2 chamberings that were FL sized.

1 was new brass for a 6mm-6.5 Grendel (aka 6mmAR, 243LBC and other names). I used a Redding S bushing die. The other was a 257 Roberts with a light load.

Both of those were the same brand brass.

Threw all that brass away.

Got a new set of brass for both, same brand. Annealed it!

Problems solved.

Reiterating the known: Set your FL die to bump the shoulder .001 to .002. Anneal, anneal, anneal.

 

[FEENIX]

The one thing I learned early on here is that there is always somebody that has far more knowledge and real world experience than I do who is almost always willing and able to lend a helping hand. If I keep an open mind and remain objective, the learning process becomes more conducive ... even for an old fart like me.

To the OP, pick one and enjoy. This not going to be your last time to be in the same situaction.

Good luck and happy safe shooting/hunting.

Ed