Longe Range Thoughts

[motrapper]

This thought came to me on another thread but I thought it might have some relevance in or on it's own.


Maybe 10% of all Elk Killed in 1 year are past 200yds Now what % are killed past 700yds now 1000yds?????? With all possibilities of elevation, wind, humidity, angle, etc...Will they take a step or NOT??? LOL Hell Yea it happens and we Hear about all of those successes!
And Bless them who dedicated themselves to give honor to them they harvested.
But what we do not hear about is 1,000% of the OH **** Shot's. Heck we hear about Some of those at less than 200.
What I would like to hear { Not Really} is how many of us on here acknowledge to all the OH **** Shots with nothing Recovered. Truth!!!!
Love Long Range But when everyone touts the biggest, best, fastest most whap to 1K plus and promotes it as I would say Bad Hits it still Works!
A New Bee's who did not grow up with open sights and learning how to be a hunter will not think twice. .
But I am 50 Plus.
So I am irrelevant!!!
I say Great but are we Talking to the masses and if anyone has worked with them??????? RUN. Just Run! LOL
And those who say they should not be here. Well hell this is America and as it should be.
With age comes experience and we know what we say will be sometimes taken on the web as gospel.
So let prudence be our guide.
But not to far off I will be committed to the earth, as all I have taken, and I hope when they see me they say, I was Honorable in my Decision I made with their Life!!!
Sid Nelson

 

[WildRose]

I'm going the other way. I spent 2 years shooting nothing but the .260 Remington to compare it to my STW's, Winnies, and Rums.

Everything I killed was just as dead.

As for percentages, not 1% of shooters can make a cold bore shot beyond 600yds from a bench under ideal conditions 10 out of ten times.

Long Range hunters are an exceptionally small group among center fire rifle hunters and shooters and sometimes we need to remind ourselves of that when we don't think the market is adapting fast enough to suit us.

Now given a choice, if I'm planning to shoot past 400yds on medium size or larger game the .260's stay home and the 6.5LRM, STW's, Winnies, or Rum's come out to play.

Same if I'm hunting in really windy conditions.

If I'm bored, I'll take the .375 Ruger and limit myself to 400yds and closer.

 

[Greyfox]

To the OP's question….I'm sure that many well seasoned LR hunters have missed, or misplaced a shot at long range, but I would speculate that this number dwarfs the aggregate missed shots taken by the general population of total hunters…at least based on my observations. IMO, misses to the LR hunter are like crashes to the race car driver. It must be turned into a learning experience. I feel very fortunate that my handful of long range misses over the years were either clean misses, offered a corrected follow-up shot, or a bad hit that still resulted in the recovery of the animal. A miss, much like a crash exposes you to the "edge". The key is to make sure any miss is fully analyzed and understood, and engrained for future reference. But don't dwell on the miss. I'm not an Elk hunter. The bulk of my LRH is for Whitetail, Mule Deer, and Antelope. Difficult, "living" targets at long range, but it's been my passion to master the process. The corresponding range equivalents compared to a 1000 yard Elk/vital zone are approximately 700 yards for a mature Deer, and 600 yards for a mature Antelope….500 yards for a coyote. Some of my stats…For each game animal taken past 750 yards on game, I have taken dozens of shots in practice on equivalently sized targets in comparable terrine/conditions. Additionally, for each animal taken past that same range, I've probably passed on 10 because I felt that my read on conditions were uncertain. Wait, re-locate, or pass. Before a shot is taken you have to ask yourself.."Will I be SHOCKED if I miss?". If the answer is no……No shot. Most importantly, you will become more proficient with time. IMO, There are no shortcuts. Time, commitment, and lots of practice and experience is necessary to push that edge….For those that have the desire to do so.
Just my thoughts.

 

[cornshank]

I going to say that your both right , and not everyone is as disciplined as some ,to pass on some shots and not everyone is going to post an experience about a cripple that they never found ,it's human nature to want to tell the good story instead of the bad one.
I still say like some , long range hunting is kinda individual ,based on so many factors .

 

[Huntnful]

To the OP's question….I'm sure that many well seasoned LR hunters have missed, or misplaced a shot at long range, but I would speculate that this number dwarfs the aggregate missed shots taken by the general population of total hunters…at least based on my observations. IMO, misses to the LR hunter are like crashes to the race car driver. It must be turned into a learning experience. I feel very fortunate that my handful of long range misses over the years were either clean misses, offered a corrected follow-up shot, or a bad hit that still resulted in the recovery of the animal. A miss, much like a crash exposes you to the "edge". The key is to make sure any miss is fully analyzed and understood, and engrained for future reference. But don't dwell on the miss. I'm not an Elk hunter. The bulk of my LRH is for Whitetail, Mule Deer, and Antelope. Difficult, "living" targets at long range, but it's been my passion to master the process. The corresponding range equivalents compared to a 1000 yard Elk/vital zone are approximately 700 yards for a mature Deer, and 600 yards for a mature Antelope….500 yards for a coyote. Some of my stats…For each game animal taken past 750 yards on game, I have taken dozens of shots in practice on equivalently sized targets in comparable terrine/conditions. Additionally, for each animal taken past that same range, I've probably passed on 10 because I felt that my read on conditions were uncertain. Wait, re-locate, or pass. Before a shot is taken you have to ask yourself.."Will I be SHOCKED if I miss?". If the answer is no……No shot. Most importantly, you will become more proficient with time. IMO, There are no shortcuts. Time, commitment, and lots of practice and experience is necessary to push that edge….For those that have the desire to do so.
Just my thoughts.

Great post! I made one mistake ONE time (too small of cartridge for given distance) and never let it happen again. Taken 15+ animals since then with not one incident. Compare that to some people taking off hand shots at 100-200 yards on game moving through timber or something. I'd say my zero incidents in the last three years, are far surpassed by those 200 yards off hand incidents.

Edit to say, my wounded animal was a 170" buck, quartering away, at 525 yards, with a 6.5 creedmoor. I pounded him, because that gun was a tack driver, and watched him walk and bound for almost a mile and never recovered him. It was my first year of hunting and LESSON LEARNED. I've since taken that same shot several times with bigger cartridges with devastating results.

 

[jpd676]

To me, this comes down to ethics. What you don't hear is how many shots I have passed up due to the difficulty of the shot. I have had big deer and elk in my crosshairs at distance but have let them walk because the wind was gusting too much. I've seen many people wound animals closer than 200 yards due to "buck fever" or general inexperience. I shoot out to 1100+ yards almost every week before hunting season in all kinds of conditions so I am well prepared for the 600 yard shot I may encounter. I don't try what I saw on Youtube just because someone else tried it. Again, this is an ethical situation and some people don't have the same ethics when it comes to hunting. I don't know how you can change that.

 

[cornshank]

To me, this comes down to ethics. What you don't hear is how many shots I have passed up due to the difficulty of the shot. I have had big deer and elk in my crosshairs at distance but have let them walk because the wind was gusting too much. I've seen many people wound animals closer than 200 yards due to "buck fever" or general inexperience. I shoot out to 1100+ yards almost every week before hunting season in all kinds of conditions so I am well prepared for the 600 yard shot I may encounter. I don't try what I saw on Youtube just because someone else tried it. Again, this is an ethical situation and some people don't have the same ethics when it comes to hunting. I don't know how you can change that.

Your right about seeing it on YouTube, I think it has pushed the long range game up on popularity , and brought new people with different ethics and experience in to it , some good some not so good .

 

[Wetwrk]

I was sweating, real sweating on my 550 yard, cow elk shot this past season. And I was shooting off my bench, bags front and rear. Had time to range and dope. Minutes felt like hours and the longer I held off the more nervous I got. Double lung heart shot, but at the time it looked like a miss. She didnt' even act hit at first. Hated that. Fell over after a bit but still. This was with a 6.5Creed and 143Eldx. I was sure, and I practice at that range and greater, but still...I traded that Creed for a 6.5PRC, Really really don't plan to shoot over 600 without a lot more practice, and I shoot a lot. I got a gong at 1000,800,600,400 and 300 right off my deck.-WW

 

[cabelasken]

About 7 years ago, I was working in Alaska and on the flight back there, sat next to a gentleman that filmed successful long range game shots. I introduced myself and we discussed the quarry that they were after on this trip. They needed two more kills to complete the ten that they were after. Their shots were all beyond 800 yds and some as much as 1200 yds. I told him the furthest shot I had made on an animal was 45 years ago on a blacktail buck at 500 yds. It was a lucky shot with my 257 Roberts as I held more than 5 ft over the bucks back. Since then, the no shot has been attempted past 450 yds and there have been very few unsuccessful shots. We got around to talking about rifles and calibers and scopes as he represented those manufacturers also and he tried very hard to convince me that I needed to upgrade. I assured him that my semi-custom Brown Precision rifles were more than adequate for my needs. Then about halfway thru the flight, I asked how many attempts it took to film 10 successful long range kills and how many animals were wounded in the process. The conversation ended there.

I have several friends that want to get into long range big game hunting and they ask me about rifles and scopes needed to be successful. I tell them that the equipment is readily available, but that they neither have the time nor are they willing to practice enough to be proficient and hone their skills enough to make every shot count.

I once made a 1/4 mile shot on a bull elk in Montana and the guide was telling his father of the stalk we made and from where we took the shot from and how I made a neck shot from that distance. I had to correct him in that I was aiming for a behind the shoulder placement. You see there was a stiff crosswind that neither the guide nor I noticed when we made the stalk. My shot hit 14" downwind from where I was aiming. Our hillside had protected us from feeling any crosswind. There are so many variables in the field that can mess things up that I personally won't attempt any shot beyond 450 yds unless it is to prevent a wounded animal from escaping.

 

[Reelamin]

This thought came to me on another thread but I thought it might have some relevance in or on it's own.


Maybe 10% of all Elk Killed in 1 year are past 200yds Now what % are killed past 700yds now 1000yds?????? With all possibilities of elevation, wind, humidity, angle, etc...Will they take a step or NOT??? LOL Hell Yea it happens and we Hear about all of those successes!

200 and under for my brother and I maybe 5%. Most 3-400, and 10% 500 and over. Will they take a step or not? We don't intentionally ruin meat so we expect them to take a few steps minimum unless head shooting a cow....maybe even run 20-50yards.

But what we do not hear about is 1,000% of the OH **** Shot's. Heck we hear about Some of those at less than 200.
What I would like to hear { Not Really} is how many of us on here acknowledge to all the OH

 

[cornshank]

About 7 years ago, I was working in Alaska and on the flight back there, sat next to a gentleman that filmed successful long range game shots. I introduced myself and we discussed the quarry that they were after on this trip. They needed two more kills to complete the ten that they were after. Their shots were all beyond 800 yds and some as much as 1200 yds. I told him the furthest shot I had made on an animal was 45 years ago on a blacktail buck at 500 yds. It was a lucky shot with my 257 Roberts as I held more than 5 ft over the bucks back. Since then, the no shot has been attempted past 450 yds and there have been very few unsuccessful shots. We got around to talking about rifles and calibers and scopes as he represented those manufacturers also and he tried very hard to convince me that I needed to upgrade. I assured him that my semi-custom Brown Precision rifles were more than adequate for my needs. Then about halfway thru the flight, I asked how many attempts it took to film 10 successful long range kills and how many animals were wounded in the process. The conversation ended there.

I have several friends that want to get into long range big game hunting and they ask me about rifles and scopes needed to be successful. I tell them that the equipment is readily available, but that they neither have the time nor are they willing to practice enough to be proficient and hone their skills enough to make every shot count.

I once made a 1/4 mile shot on a bull elk in Montana and the guide was telling his father of the stalk we made and from where we took the shot from and how I made a neck shot from that distance. I had to correct him in that I was aiming for a behind the shoulder placement. You see there was a stiff crosswind that neither the guide nor I noticed when we made the stalk. My shot hit 14" downwind from where I was aiming. Our hillside had protected us from feeling any crosswind. There are so many variables in the field that can mess things up that I personally won't attempt any shot beyond 450 yds unless it is to prevent a wounded animal from escaping.

Wind is huge ,even at 350 yds , I've held 6 " off target in a stiff cross wind and yes broke the Bulls back.
I keep the wind corrections taped on my stock with packing tape!
Imagine how wind effects your bullet at farther distances.

 

[cornshank]

200 and under for my brother and I maybe 5%. Most 3-400, and 10% 500 and over. Will they take a step or not? We don't intentionally ruin meat so we expect them to take a few steps minimum unless head shooting a cow....maybe even run 20-50yards.

For us a OH **** shot is when we miss totally. If we hit it and it doesn't fall head down we call it "SHOOT THAT BASS TERN AGAIN" and its as fast as we can jack another cartridge in and hit it again.
A wounded animal is a "I fucked up shot", and we have had a couple of those. 98% of I f'd up shots were what we term bullet failure and we get the bull. We don't have many wounded animals that got away. I can think of two for me, and none for him that come to mind quickly.

Only to some....I loved the old guys when I was younger and now I'm one of the old guys also.

Uh...dude....the internet is the new stone tablet to a huge percentage of people.

Amen brother Amen.

I like the stone tablet comment.

 

[ShtrRdy]

A hunter has got to know their limitations in the field.

 

[Texis]

All good comments on a controversial topic these days. I shoot almost weekly at 500 at my range so I know the rifle, the dope and what the round is going to do. That said, around 350-400 is my max on mule deer (they tend to stay still) and 200-250 on whitetail, they jump around a lot more lol.
Hogs.. sky's the limit. If I can see and range and have a good rest there is almost no shot I'll pass on. 860 is best to date.
To determine my rounds effective killing range, I use 1800fps and 1000 ftlbs, thats the wall. I refer to anything under those numbers as the kill zone. For my 308 it was around 475. For my 708 it's around 650. Below 1800 most hunting rounds do not provide much expansion, giving poor terminal performance.
Individuals should have self imposed limits. The only shots I consider unethical are shots taken by people who have very little time shooting at distance and have little or no idea what their rifle and their round is going to do under actual field conditions.