Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y

[Deleted member 48126]

I'm curious how much you think you exaggerated in your statement?

What did he exaggerate?

 

[palerider3]

What kind of barrel life do you get burning 110 grains of powder through a 7mm?

 

[greenejc]

I just looked at the Taylor KO calculator. The 6.5 Creedmoor gets about 2350ftlbs at the muzzle, has a momentum of 55, and a TKO of 14 with a 140 grain bullet, velocity of 2750fps at the muzzle. The mopey, old-hat 30-06 has 3020ftlbs at the muzzle, a momentum of about 70, and a TKO of 21, with a muzzle velocity of 2750fps. The -06 has about 15 to 20% more weight, a larger foot-print, and greater mass to keep it in a straight-line penetration of game. I hits more than 30% harder, and continues to penetrate better and hit harder at any distance, due to its greater mass. This is simple physics. My Whelen, with 225 grain Sierras at about that velocity(chronographed 10 feet from the muzzle) hits a lot harder, and is still supersonic at 1,000 yards at 8,000ft. With the Speer Hotcor, at around 2675fps(average) it has 3900+ ftlbs a momentum of 90+ and a TKO of around 34 or 35. It also has a foot-print that's about double the .264, which means it will deliver that energy much more efficiently. Again, that's just physics. And yes, the .260 Rem has an edge on the Creedmoor in velocity. Look in any reloading manual. Given a hunt for elk, moose or bear, I'd use a .30cal or above over any 6.5 unless I was being paid to hunt with one. And then, I'd want a good friend who can shoot to back me up with a more effective caliber because I hate having to trail game. And even perfect placement on an elk at distance with a medium-small caliber can lead to blood-trailing. Also, bigger bullets leave larger exit wounds at distance(30 cal. Winmag, 30-06, 7.84 Warbird, etc.), 8mm, 338, 358 cals, which result with broken bones, complete pass through, larger exit wounds and better blood trails, if needed, are just better at distance. It isn't about flatter trajectory. Its about killing power, and humane killing of game. These calibers just have better effect at distance, regardless of their trajectory. Remember, buffalo were killed with things like the 45-90/45-100 with 500 grain bullets at ranges beyond 500-600 yards routinely in the 1870's, with one-shot drops, and the trajectory was like a rainbow. It isn't the flat trajectory that kills. Its what the projectile can do when it hits the target. All the Lazzeronis are very good at taking game at distance. The 6.5s are marginal, simply due to caliber and bullet mass. Lets just say I wouldn't want to face a charging grizzley with one, while I wouldn't feel totally under-gunned with a 30-06 and 200 grain bullets. I'd still rather have the Whelen with 250 grain Speers, though.

 

[WYMIKE]

I have shot a Warbird in Sako M995 since 2001. Never regretted the purchase from an outfitter who only shot it once with factory ammo. The rifle is very well built and accurate with 168 Moly coated Bergers and a Leupold 6-18x40 dot. Yes the twist rate limits your bullets selection. It was built for speed. I have lost count of how many one shot kills its made since taking that rifle to the hills of Wyoming. Distance was never a problem as it carried energy downrange for elk, deer, antelope and sheep at extreme ranges. On the practice range it punishes the AR500 steel. The addition of a Huskemaw 5-20x50 was wonderful in 2011. New load testing with N565 and N570 powder has really opened my eyes as the ES has been greatly reduced for even more consistant loads. Brass is always trimmed and annealed. Primers are Fed 215M. Yep is is expensive to shoot but when I have one shot it comes thru for me - after all I work for a year to get that opportunity and I owe it to the animals I'm hunting. There is nothing like "The Bird".

 

[greenejc]

What about a few pics of the cartriges?

Like your quote.

 

[greenejc]

I'm curious how much you think you exaggerated in your statement?

He's not exaggerating. Any of the short necked magnums, including the .300 Winchester Magnum, burn barrels. Most of the short mags have chromed barrels to extend their barrel life. The Army's new M2010 in .300 WinMag is a serious barrel burner, especially with the ammo they use. 2000, to 2500 rounds and it has to be re-barreled. That's one of the penalties of using a Magnum cartridge.

 

[12valvetater]

So is it basically an Ultramag case without a rebated rim? If this is the what it is then and lazzeroni spent so much time and money coming up with super awesome brass.why not put that effort into producing high end components for available calibers? Just a question. With that being said I think its cool and different, but it's so different it makes me not want to deal with it, especially if I can't get a reamer and do it myself. It's also a little harsh to bag on the 7rum when it looks to me like it's more or less the same other than the RUM working in any let me say that again it someone didnt see it. ANY standard magnum long action.

 

[chuplis]

Didn't mean to offense anyone, I've been using several of Lazzeroni cartridges for most of my hunts, none of them ever fails me.
I understand those cartridges are a little pricey, but when you use them for hunting purposes only, all you need is just a few boxes of ammo. I did a 21 days African Safari hunt several years ago, took 2 boxes of .338 Titan and 2 boxes of .478 Bibamufu, which almost reach the weight limit on a plane. Came home with 3 of the biggest animal in Africa, several Plains game, a Zebra, a couple Warthogs and 2 boxes of unused ammo.
What impressed me the most was when you didn't hit the vital, those animals still drops like a rock.
Btw, I'm not a big person, 5'6'' 160lbs, with a good muzzle brake its not bad at all.... also I load my own ammo, which cuts almost half the price....

 

[palerider3]

And yes, the .260 Rem has an edge on the Creedmoor in velocity

. Lol, 20-50 Fps is not an edge that any animal would notice. They're almost identical in the real world. And with RL26, the Creed is about the same as the 6.5-284 was a few years back. 140s at 2900+ is not unreasonable. I realize that making fun of the Creed is the cool thing to do, and lots of people trying to make it something it's not doesn't help. But comparing it to a 7mm burning 110 grains of powder, and costing $7 a round, the way this thread was started is pure lunacy. It's easy to out perform a standard short action round with a long action ultramag round that only works in a few special actions. Is a 7.21 actually going to kill an animal in a situation that a 28 nosler or even a properly loaded 300wm wouldn't? If you like lesser known super expensive screamers that's fine. But justifying them by comparing them to a short action standard round designed for long strings of competitive shooting is kinda dumb. It would be like saying the creedmoor is better because the lazzaroni wouldn't make it though a single PRS match. It's not even apples and oranges, its gas station hotdogs to Ruth's Chris.

 

[derrickmanx1]

Well I guess I'll step in this turd. I have 3 lazzeroni guns. They are great rifles. I have a a couple of 6.5 CM rifles as well. My 8.59 titan is my long range big gun. On barrel number 2. I have a 7.82 warbird. I'm on barrel number 2 on it and barrel number 2 on my 6.53 scramjet. My scramjet is a long range varmint rig. I love 75 grain v-max bullets in this one. Are they perfect??? No. Are they good??? Yes. I got into them when I thought that velocity was everything. They are more forgiving on distance miscalculations than other rounds for sure. Although with practice that need goes away. I do enjoy my 6.5 Creedmoor. You can buy really good ammo over the counter with it. You can't with the lazzeroni ammo. You have to buy what they load for. They have very limited ammo selections. I have been "collecting" brass for years and reload for them. I have found the lazzeroni rifles to be great for hunting, but they are more of a hassle to deal with for plinking. If you don't reload and want to shoot long range for "hunting" they are a great choice. They are expensive to shoot long range compared to anything you can get readily available brass reasonably priced for.

 

[HARPERC]

Oddly enough the night before this thread started a friend asked me if Lazzeroni was still around.

I've never seen, or handled one of your rifles. While I have spent that much on a rifle, I can do as well locally.

Kind of like high end optics-tough to have that kind of faith to just order one.

 

[Tank308]

A couple weekends back was the first time I had heard of a LAZZ. A guy sat at the bench next to me and showed me his LAZZ. 416 neck to 7mm. I was impressed. He fired 2 rounds and had to rack it. I like seeing the top fuels run. Why not If you can afford it. I'm more of a pro stock budget.

 

[villagelightsmith]

If I can't kill it with an '06, it probably doesn't need killin'. If it's too far away for that, I need to get closer. If it's too big for that, well, maybe I shouldn't tick it off any worse.

 

[Don A Parsons]

A question to ask if I may...

If a person was planing on hunting big game here in our Americas from 600 to 1000 lbs of Elk or Moose give or take the weigths along with Deer,,, sheep,,, antelope,,, would it be wize to choose such a cartridge...

Or would a standard cartridge work for these kind of harvests...