Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y

[LazzInc]

I may be missing the point someplace along the line here, but I cannot figure out how the latest crop of 6.5 shorts/longs can be as effective on game animals at the longer ranges to 1000 yards, as the Lazzeroni 7.21 (.284) Firebird and 7.82 (.308) Warbird.

Certainly the Lazz rifles are more expensive than most folks want to pay, but the Lazz calibers themselves are some of THE most effective on game anywhere in the world.

Lazzeroni ballistics here https://www.lazzeroni.com/Ballistics-Charts_c_20.html

 

[cjl2010]

I think a lot might come down to paying nearly $4 a piece for brass.

I do love the performance you get with your cartridges but for me personally the single source expensive brass is a non starter. Keep up the great work though!

 

[snox801]

I think I think he is right. Why would you buy special brass and have the extra cost when you could match the performance with something a bit more main stream.
At least that was my take when shopping for them a few years back.

 

[Timnterra]

These cartridges never caught on because everything is proprietary. This is why weatherby cartridges remain unpopular. They are also very much overbore like the 7mm RUM which boasts one of the shortest barrel life spans. The benefits gained from an extra 300-400fps over a standard 7mm Remington Magnum do not justify all the other downfalls of such a massive case. Ie. Expensive brass, massive recoil, shorter barrel life, lack of easily obtainable components. Guys who hunt and shoot long range seem to enjoy shooting. It's hard to have an enjoyable time when your teeth rattle with every shot and it costs you hundreds of dollars just to develop an accurate load and by the time your done, you have to replace the barrel and start over.

 

[FEENIX]

I agree with the above posts. Please take no offense but I am not a fan of a proprietary cartridge esp. when brass is a premium and a sole source.

 

[ramrod79]

I'm in the same boat as the rest, and no offence my 338SS out does the 338 Galaxy with bullets listed. I get really good brass at a decent price, reamers shipped where ever I need , and a huge network of support.

 

[snox801]

I'm not against any of those things. I own Roy's and Allen mags. But they far surpassed the standard version of that round. Ie a .257 Roy over a 25-06. Or the 338 allen express over the lapua. But when the new stuff is so close it's hard to justify.
Also you have very little info on the cartridge itself on your site. Like parent case and comparing it to the standard. Sell me the 257 over a Roy. Explain it a bit and some will bite. I always seem to. I actually looked at yours first before my lapua improved and Allen mag but wanted more info.

 

[codyadams]

Yup. All that.

 

[LazzInc]

NO Offense taken at all, Lazzeroni calibers are certainly more expensive to shoot than most.

But the PERFORMANCE differences are not just slight, they are quite significant, and with the correct bullets, the 300-500 fps Lazz advantage can mean the difference between a clean kill and an animal that limps off wounded, especially at extreme range.

Anyone can overload a standard caliber to try and get close to the Lazzeroni's, but when we compare apples to apples at a consistent pressure of 66,500PSI, NOTHING outruns the Lazzeroni factory loaded ammo.

I was mostly taken back by the comments of many who tout the almost magical long range killing ability of calibers like the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is nothing but an enhanced 260 REM short mag.

Calibers like this simply lack the speed and energy to make a clean kill on large game animals at 700-1000 yards.

 

[codyadams]

Don't worry, we have all heard about the magical tank stopping 6.5 creed enough to make us vomit. lol. It is what it is, nothing more.

I would agree that there is no factory available ammo that will do what the 7mm and 30 cal Lazzeroni cartridges do, accept say the 300 Norma Mag. However, the majority of people that spend 5k+ on a rifle and also shoot long range handload all their ammunition, and that opens up to cartridges that equal and outperform the Lazzeroni cartridges, and have better/cheaper brass availability if someone is looking for performance in that realm. Wildcats off the 338 Lapua or Norma, or even Cheytac variants come to mind in that category.

As far as the 338 and 375 Lazzeroni cartridges, that performance can be done with the standard 338 RUM, 338 lapua, 338 Norma Mag, very close with a 375 RUM, and so on. Wildcats go even farther.

Not trying to offend, just my observation as to why you don't see more of the Lazzeroni cartridges around. I think the majority of us here agree that the 6.5 creed and others have been over embellished with their advertising as well as new shooters not fully understanding ballistics. They have their place, they can even be suitable elk cartridges at moderate ranges with proper bullet selection and shot placement, but 1,000 yd+ elk killing with factory hornady ammunition shot from a Ruger american rifle is not it.

 

[yorke-1]

I have a ton of respect for the Lazzeroni rounds. Like you said, anyone can overload a case and claim pretty amazing performance. It's another matter entirely to get the same performance numbers from pressure tested ammunition. I see a TON of performance data on here and other sites that I'd love to see tested. Performance comes at a cost and that's either powder or pressure, there's no magic behind it. I'll be the first to admit that I've done some very aggressive loading too!

I've kicked around doing something like the 10.57 Maverick but the rifles offered aren't really what I'm looking for. I'm more interested in a 20" barreled gun as a midrange elk gun. I would have built one years ago but brass availability is a little spotty and there aren't many options for actions to build one off of since they use a unique rim diameter (slightly under Lapua sized right?).

 

[TheLongRanger83702]

These cartridges never caught on because everything is proprietary. This is why weatherby cartridges remain unpopular. They are also very much overbore like the 7mm RUM which boasts one of the shortest barrel life spans. The benefits gained from an extra 300-400fps over a standard 7mm Remington Magnum do not justify all the other downfalls of such a massive case. Ie. Expensive brass, massive recoil, shorter barrel life, lack of easily obtainable components. Guys who hunt and shoot long range seem to enjoy shooting. It's hard to have an enjoyable time when your teeth rattle with every shot and it costs you hundreds of dollars just to develop an accurate load and by the time your done, you have to replace the barrel and start over.

Tru dat...lol.

 

[snox801]

I think Cody hit the nail on the head. Being a 6.5 creed shooter I have to put up with that all the time. Like how the Creed is the same as a 300 win mag. Lol
I think I was a perfect example of your customer a few years back. I wanted to get into long range and wanted the best hot rod with factory ammo.
That led me to the Weatherby.
Then when I made the jump to a full custom I either loaded my own or had custom ammo done for it like my .375 and 300 win mag.
Again this is all not meant to offend but help you steer into your market. You guys have great looking stuff. I think if offered far more data and details on your web page it would go a long way. Similar to Kirby Allen's page. Show what's common. Put you .257 next to a 25-06 and a Roy. Then give FPS and maybe pressure for both. Kinda a apples to apples.
That way when a customers starts shopping it's all right in one spot. He can tell his friends. It's like a .338 lapua's older brother then give stats. Most people I know own rifles like that just to brag.
Heck I have a friend who just bought a lapua and nightforce atarc and has never shot over 100 yards in his life. Shoots maybe 20 rounds every two years. But he would buy your guns.

 

[Black Tail Hunter]

I shoot a 7.82 Warbird and love the performance and consistency i get with the round. 185g Berger VLD with 3400 fps at the muzzle.

I am by no means wealthy and could never afford a Lazzeroni signature gun, so I bought the Sako M995 version that John built years ago to offer a lower cost alternative. Yes brass is expensive, that is why i keep my eye out for good used brass on this site and gunbroker. You can find brass for 1.50-2.00 ea which makes it more affordable. Usually it is once fired, and after you anneal it usually lasts quite a while.

Add a good muzzle brake or suppressor and you are in business with a mild shooting rifle that performs well against most anything out there. When i confirmed zero last fall before hunting season, the rifle shot 1.25" at 300 yds which is by far the most accurate rifle in my safe.

i was unimpressed with the stock that Sako put on these rifles and they were problematic so I added a really nice Macmillan stock which was a huge improvement, the stock cost me 2/3 what i paid for the rifle but it was a good investment.

I like shooting a hot rod rifle cartridge that a lot of people have never heard of, but thats just me.