Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y

[palerider3]

Personally, I'm just not impressed. Comparing a 6.5 creedmoor to a custom 7mm mag? Sure you'll have more energy at 1000 yards. A more accurate comparison would be your 257. And factory 6.5 PRC ammo out performs that at $1.50 a round. It seems that most of your rounds are shooting light bullets really fast. Your 30 Cal is showing data for 150-190 gr bullets. If it's a long range round, why aren't you posting data for 225-230 gr bullets? Why not show 195s in your 7mm? And a 285 at 2960? That's really not overly impressive either. But by all means, bash away at the 6.5s by comparing them to a proprietary 7mm or 30 Cal magnum.

 

[Iron Worker]

NO Offense taken at all, Lazzeroni calibers are certainly more expensive to shoot than most.

But the PERFORMANCE differences are not just slight, they are quite significant, and with the correct bullets, the 300-500 fps Lazz advantage can mean the difference between a clean kill and an animal that limps off wounded, especially at extreme range.

Anyone can overload a standard caliber to try and get close to the Lazzeroni's, but when we compare apples to apples at a consistent pressure of 66,500PSI, NOTHING outruns the Lazzeroni factory loaded ammo.

I was mostly taken back by the comments of many who tout the almost magical long range killing ability of calibers like the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is nothing but an enhanced 260 REM short mag.

Calibers like this simply lack the speed and energy to make a clean kill on large game animals at 700-1000 yards.

Ok so were in the 21st century now are there in new barrel materials or coatings that can extend barrel life beyond 600-1000 rounds ?

 

[bearcat2]

I remember looking at your stuff years ago. I steered clear of it because it was proprietary. Meaning both expensive and the likelyhood of availbility being low to nil. If you went out of business or quit supporting a certain cartridge (look at other small firearms manufacturers in the past, a lot disappear) good luck finding brass. I might be able to make my own out of something else. I know a lot more about reloading and wildcatting than I did back then, but then I would have to research and find out what I could make them out of and you certainly aren't bothering to post that. In fact without doing any research, I noticed someone above here posting that you have a nonstandard head/rim diameter and need a custom bolt and extractor built specifically for Lazzeroni rounds. That would make it much harder to form brass for and frankly sounds like someone trying to force customers to buy their proprietary ammo and buy a gun from them instead of having one custom built by a gunsmith in that caliber. Maybe you have good engineering reasons for nonstandard diameters, but if so you should state those plainly so that others don't do the same as me and assume you are trying to force customers to buy from you.

 

[Will Gray]

I bought a 300 RUM barrel but cut it up to make a 308 since I had a 300WM. I have a 338 EDGE and now a 416/300RUM (BUF). 300RUM brass is available not not really expensive and easy to resize for the EDGE and BUF, thinking of making a 375RUM same idea just neck up 300RUM. But I would not consider going to a 7mmRUM no point. (I prefer 30cal or larger for hunting: 358 Winchester for hunting this year.) I will go back and make another 300RUM just to have the full set: 300, 338, 375 and 416 all from the same brass all using H1000. If you like or need big fast bullets "try the RUM brand, I think you will like it." (para-phrase from "Clear and Present Danger.") I am old so the muscle mass in my shoulders is not what it once was but I can shoot any of those in a T shirt without effect. Go big or go home...

 

[Pieter Willem Vorster]

What about a few pics of the cartriges?

 

[MAD10]

These cartridges never caught on because everything is proprietary. This is why weatherby cartridges remain unpopular. They are also very much overbore like the 7mm RUM which boasts one of the shortest barrel life spans. The benefits gained from an extra 300-400fps over a standard 7mm Remington Magnum do not justify all the other downfalls of such a massive case. Ie. Expensive brass, massive recoil, shorter barrel life, lack of easily obtainable components. Guys who hunt and shoot long range seem to enjoy shooting. It's hard to have an enjoyable time when your teeth rattle with every shot and it costs you hundreds of dollars just to develop an accurate load and by the time your done, you have to replace the barrel and start over.

I'm curious how much you think you exaggerated in your statement?

 

[Huggy]

I've always coveted a Lazz in all their calibers but couldn't afford one while raising a family and now that I'm medically retired, I cannot take advantage of the performance and won't have a Safe Queen solely for bragging rights.
To me that would be a foolish expenditure of money best saved for a rainy day in MY case and situation.
Another reason I've felt the Lazz rounds never caught on, irrespective of their phenomenal performance, IS due to their proprietary nature as well as their top of the pyramid prices for both Launcher and ammo.
A second mortgage to buy and own such an extravagance simply eludes me.
Folks like to think that it wouldn't be a major hurdle to step into an out of the way gun store and pick up a box of Super Dooper High Fallutin' Whiz Bang cartridges because he forgot his ammo at home or took a spill on a mountainside and used his available ammo to get his Mega Dollar Lazz rifle back on target and needs a box or two for hunting, but nobody has HEARD of that brand of ammo, much less carrying it when a box costs half a weeks wages.
An oversimplification to be sure but commonality is a HUGE draw, even if your favorite brand rifle/ammo combination can take out a satellite from a low earth orbit or allow you to anchor a stellar bull elk two time zones away.
I suppose there are folks that just HAVE to own the biggest, the fastest, the prettiest bobble to compete with the Jones's, but at what cost?
Like many, I envy those that can afford continual trips to The Dark Continent to hunt exotic game, even though I'll never be able to afford a trip to hunt with a camera, much less a rifle, but I don't begrudge the well-heeled hunter who can.
Same with desiring to own and drive a Bugatti instead of a Geo Metro to shag for groceries at the local Piggly Wiggly.
One is in my budget. The other is in my dreams.
But to those who CAN afford the Lazz line of Earga-Splittin' Louden-Boomin' Screaming Missile Launchers, well, You do YOU, Boo Boo and I'll tinker with my lowly Win Mag or BMG, either of which can help harvest game of ANY size, shape or other physical attributes that "I" can afford to pursue in a Fair Chase as long as "I" do MY part in being an competent hunter.
But I can look at the cartridge spec's, sigh out loud and live vicariously through the exploits of those who CAN own and shoot those spectacular rifles as well as afford the expenditure of travel, guides and associates to harvest any game on this planet.
Now please excuse me while I fan myself from all the mental exertion of dreaming of any number of exotic hunts I'd love to be on.

 

[Boman]

I owned the Sako rifle version of the Warbird for a few years. It was a great rifle and cartridge. everything I shot with it was absolutely flattened right there, including elk. If you want raw power the Lazzeronis will deliver it. And yes the brass is outrageously priced and i do believe that alone keeps folks from buying them. If Lazzeroni came out with a factory type rifle again and made the components affordable along with barrel twists to shoot heavier bullets theyd sell a ton of them. But i think John likes the exclusivity of the Lazzeroni brand so i dont think this will happen.

 

[9x23w]

Brass is a little pricey but you just need to keep your eyes open for deals. Same with dies. But once you have them it's only a few cents more for the powder, after that it's like reloading anything else. Lazzeroni brass is very well made. The Warbird is very similar to the 30-378 but thankfully no belt and a better shoulder shape.

The big problem with the Firebird and Warbird is the twist rate. My Sako 995 Warbird has a 1-12 twist, I think the Firebirds are the same. I can't see them working well with long, heavy bullets, which is the current trend, but maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

 

[floyd kittrell]

I shoot a 7.82 Warbird and love the performance and consistency i get with the round. 185g Berger VLD with 3400 fps at the muzzle.

I am by no means wealthy and could never afford a Lazzeroni signature gun, so I bought the Sako M995 version that John built years ago to offer a lower cost alternative. Yes brass is expensive, that is why i keep my eye out for good used brass on this site and gunbroker. You can find brass for 1.50-2.00 ea which makes it more affordable. Usually it is once fired, and after you anneal it usually lasts quite a while.

Add a good muzzle brake or suppressor and you are in business with a mild shooting rifle that performs well against most anything out there. When i confirmed zero last fall before hunting season, the rifle shot 1.25" at 300 yds which is by far the most accurate rifle in my safe.

i was unimpressed with the stock that Sako put on these rifles and they were problematic so I added a really nice Macmillan stock which was a huge improvement, the stock cost me 2/3 what i paid for the rifle but it was a good investment.

I like shooting a hot rod rifle cartridge that a lot of people have never heard of, but thats just me.


View attachment 147956

Yep , I own the left hand Warbird and the Patriot , love them both and my 2 favorite weapons . They have served me well and I will shoot them until I can no longer hunt , God willing .

 

[Black Tail Hunter]

I've always coveted a Lazz in all their calibers but couldn't afford one while raising a family and now that I'm medically retired, I cannot take advantage of the performance and won't have a Safe Queen solely for bragging rights.
To me that would be a foolish expenditure of money best saved for a rainy day in MY case and situation.
Another reason I've felt the Lazz rounds never caught on, irrespective of their phenomenal performance, IS due to their proprietary nature as well as their top of the pyramid prices for both Launcher and ammo.
A second mortgage to buy and own such an extravagance simply eludes me.
Folks like to think that it wouldn't be a major hurdle to step into an out of the way gun store and pick up a box of Super Dooper High Fallutin' Whiz Bang cartridges because he forgot his ammo at home or took a spill on a mountainside and used his available ammo to get his Mega Dollar Lazz rifle back on target and needs a box or two for hunting, but nobody has HEARD of that brand of ammo, much less carrying it when a box costs half a weeks wages.
An oversimplification to be sure but commonality is a HUGE draw, even if your favorite brand rifle/ammo combination can take out a satellite from a low earth orbit or allow you to anchor a stellar bull elk two time zones away.
I suppose there are folks that just HAVE to own the biggest, the fastest, the prettiest bobble to compete with the Jones's, but at what cost?
Like many, I envy those that can afford continual trips to The Dark Continent to hunt exotic game, even though I'll never be able to afford a trip to hunt with a camera, much less a rifle, but I don't begrudge the well-heeled hunter who can.
Same with desiring to own and drive a Bugatti instead of a Geo Metro to shag for groceries at the local Piggly Wiggly.
One is in my budget. The other is in my dreams.
But to those who CAN afford the Lazz line of Earga-Splittin' Louden-Boomin' Screaming Missile Launchers, well, You do YOU, Boo Boo and I'll tinker with my lowly Win Mag or BMG, either of which can help harvest game of ANY size, shape or other physical attributes that "I" can afford to pursue in a Fair Chase as long as "I" do MY part in being an competent hunter.
But I can look at the cartridge spec's, sigh out loud and live vicariously through the exploits of those who CAN own and shoot those spectacular rifles as well as afford the expenditure of travel, guides and associates to harvest any game on this planet.
Now please excuse me while I fan myself from all the mental exertion of dreaming of any number of exotic hunts I'd love to be on.

The point of my post was to illustrate that the performance of a Lazzeroni cartridge could be enjoyed without the full bore cost of purchasing all items off of the Lazz website if one wanted to pursue it on a budget. Perhaps i poorly conveyed that.

 

[tooth doc]

NO Offense taken at all, Lazzeroni calibers are certainly more expensive to shoot than most.

But the PERFORMANCE differences are not just slight, they are quite significant, and with the correct bullets, the 300-500 fps Lazz advantage can mean the difference between a clean kill and an animal that limps off wounded, especially at extreme range.

Anyone can overload a standard caliber to try and get close to the Lazzeroni's, but when we compare apples to apples at a consistent pressure of 66,500PSI, NOTHING outruns the Lazzeroni factory loaded ammo.

I was mostly taken back by the comments of many who tout the almost magical long range killing ability of calibers like the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is nothing but an enhanced 260 REM short mag.

Calibers like this simply lack the speed and energy to make a clean kill on large game animals at 700-1000 yards.

6.5 creed does not quite equal ballistics of the 260 rem. No magnum involved.

 

[Huntz]

Since I limit my shots to 500 yards or less(usually a lot less as I enjoy the stalk more than pulling the trigger) a Lazzeroni or Weatherby would make no sense for me.I am not running down either cartridge or rifle as both are top notch.A 300WSM or 270WSM work just fine and most of the time a 308Win will do everything I want it to.I have never lost a game animal with those cartridges or any other cartridge I have used.Just sayin,Huntz

 

[greenejc]

I may be missing the point someplace along the line here, but I cannot figure out how the latest crop of 6.5 shorts/longs can be as effective on game animals at the longer ranges to 1000 yards, as the Lazzeroni 7.21 (.284) Firebird and 7.82 (.308) Warbird.

Certainly the Lazz rifles are more expensive than most folks want to pay, but the Lazz calibers themselves are some of THE most effective on game anywhere in the world.

Lazzeroni ballistics here https://www.lazzeroni.com/Ballistics-Charts_c_20.html

They aren't. The only advantags are less recoil, more obtainable ammunition, and less expense. That's a big advantage, but I wouldn't use any of the 6.5s on anything bigger than deer outside 250 yards, and I have better, more effective calibers already in my hunting arsenal. To get penetration at distance, and have a large enough exit wound, a bullet either has to mushroom well and exit, or start out large and exit large. And anything beyond about 600 yards leaves out most of the bonded bullets, because velocity retained at that distance isn't enough for the bullet to expand properly in most calibers. .ballisticstudies.com has done extensive real-world experimental studies on penetration/hydrostatic shock/hydrolic shock, of various calibers, cartridges in these calibers, and projectiles offered commercially in each caliber/cartridge/bullet weight. The result of the projectile not expanding at extreme distances is a caliber size hole, and if placement is poor, a lost animal or a really long trail. Your cartridges extend the range at which large game may be taken cleanly. They're just more costly than I can afford. I use a .35 Whelen for my really large animal hunts. I get pass-through at very long distances, and within 700 yards, good expansion in both the Sierra Gameking and the Speer 250 grain hotcor. And yes, my rifle has a muzzle brake.