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Lazz 7.21 (.284) Firebird 162-168gr to 1000Y
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Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
I scaled back to 6.5 this year,,, if hunting season success don't pan out I'll return to my Wildcat 30 cal... Ha
A clean harvest for me is the distance I'm comfortable shooting,,, the other critters I pass up on are in the sport of """fair game and chase."""
Makes sence to me... LOL
A clean harvest for me is the distance I'm comfortable shooting,,, the other critters I pass up on are in the sport of """fair game and chase."""
Makes sence to me... LOL
"Gunz r bad!", David Hogg
I agree that velocity sells, I just think it sells to the wrong crowd for the wrong reason. To the masses velocity is just that, I'm faster than you. If that wasn't the case, then most would be driving a grocery getter of sort and be fine with that. Instead, most folks I know would love to have a 800 hp Dodge Demon even though it gets you to the same places and on the same 70 mph highways.
To most I know on this site that extra hp allows us to push aerodynamically superior bullets at greater velocity to maximize our down range performance (external/terminal ballistics and increase your probability of a hit). Nothing wrong with that, my go to rifle is a .338 RUM. I run that thing like a .308 at times and know the consequences...expense. My .375 Snipetac (by the way Waveslayer-no comparison to the Laz) is a hotrod of different proportions and I do not run it like a workhorse but treat like a thoroughbred instead.
JJMoody
Well-Known Member
Not sure on the pressure the 37XC is running, but Tubb's cartridges seem to have some advantages. Relatively inexpensive brass, can be put together by a competent "Savage-smith" on the proper action and performance is impressive.
I just want to thank you and all of the custom builders. The factory stuff has taken notice and has upped their game. Which is Getting more people interested. I hope You guys keep pushing the envelope. There will always be people that don't understand why someone needs that. Most of the posts on here people have made an improvement to there equipment, load or case to get better results. God bless all levels of shooters.
TwoMore
Well-Known Member
LongBomber
Well-Known Member
I don't really see the lazz cartridges as designed for long range, at least in the 338 and under. With the slow barrel twists most rifles look spec'd with, you are limited to fairly light bullets. That runs the speeds up, which is great for under 500 yard hunting. A barnes ttsx impacting at 3500fps is pretty effective.
Really a larger advantage at the long range game is bullet bc, some of the hunting bullets out now with g1 bc's near or over .8 make a pretty big difference at long range, more than what a 200-300fps difference in muzzle velocity makes. Thats what makes a 6.5 very effective, you can drive a high bc 140-150gr bullet 2800-3000fps and have some good downrange performance with fairly low recoil and decent barrel life.
Take a warbird and run a 10 twist barrel and a 230gr berger otm and you could get some great down range performance.
It still seems that many are stuck with understanding what huge difference bullet bc makes in downrange speed/energy and drift especially if you are talking a grand plus distance. To meet the current trends the lazz rifles would need to be setup with fast twist barrels to run the high bc bullets.
Really a larger advantage at the long range game is bullet bc, some of the hunting bullets out now with g1 bc's near or over .8 make a pretty big difference at long range, more than what a 200-300fps difference in muzzle velocity makes. Thats what makes a 6.5 very effective, you can drive a high bc 140-150gr bullet 2800-3000fps and have some good downrange performance with fairly low recoil and decent barrel life.
Take a warbird and run a 10 twist barrel and a 230gr berger otm and you could get some great down range performance.
It still seems that many are stuck with understanding what huge difference bullet bc makes in downrange speed/energy and drift especially if you are talking a grand plus distance. To meet the current trends the lazz rifles would need to be setup with fast twist barrels to run the high bc bullets.
uncle_motorhead
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 62
Love my Firebird. Love my Warbird. Love my 30-378 Wby. Not a big fan of my RUM. I shoot light Barnes bullets in all of them. Still looking for more 120 gr 7mm Lazerheads though. 0 to nearly 500 yards you just aim and shoot. No range finder needed, no twisty knobs needed. Most times I have less than 10 sec after spotting an animal and shooting it b/4 it would be gone. Moving animals move less distance from hammer drop to impact on higher velocity bullets. Sorry but a lot of the info listed previously isn't correct. Not a special bolt face diam, same as 378 Wby line, a Rum is not the same, 110 vs 120 H2O for the 30 cal, 300 Norma Mag is comparable to the 300 Wby, 103/101 H2O, not the Warbird. But the 30-378 holds 133 gr H2O. Just has a belt. No fat slow heavy High BC bullet will touch these 3 with light 4000 fps bullets from 0 to 500 yards. (Give or take 50). But after 450 to 500, they win. Sure we can all hit steel at 1000 yards. We know the exact distance, wind, pressure, humidity, and the steel isn't running 20 mph. If there is a 30 mph crosswind, very few will hit a running animal at even 300 yards. Yes we all LOVE high BC, because as we said in aerodynamics class, drag is a real drag. But TOF to 500, the light Lazzeroni most often wins. And no, I don't burn them up at the range. That is what the AR and 22's are for. I don't drive a top fuel to work, I drive my Cobalt. But if I want to get to the end of the quarter mile right now....
Skimbleshanks
Well-Known Member
Shooting running animals at distance especially in a 30 mph wind sounds like a bad scene no matter the rifle or cartridge.
Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
Well it sounds like the Lazzeroni is the go to rifle I guess,,, hopefully I don't have to shoot out to a 1000 yards little lone 500...
I'd like to jump on board for sure,,, but sometimes things in life get in the way,,, hunting,,, fishing,,, camping,,, quading,,, hiking,,, mountain biking,,, big bon-fires and a quality lawn chair,,, family and work along with many other things that add value to the mix...
I suppose I could give up everything to own 1 or 2 of them,,, but what fun would that be,,, no motor boat,,, sell the RV and Quad,,, might as well sell the snow machines,,, no need for the toy hualer... Ha
Yuppers,,, keep the frugal under powered irons I own that cost me nothing less using them,,, or have 1 or 2 awesome rifles that won't do me any good...
Won't be able to go hunting after I sell my truck and Quad,,, how would I retrieve the critter that I shot it 1 or 2 miles on the other side of the massive valley,,,.can't even get it home from the mountains since it won't fit in my little car...
I can see that my life would soon become boring since I have lots of time to look at the new guns I can't even use...
This makes me think that I should of left well enough alone and keep what I have...
Site in at 200 yards and hope for the best,,, don't reach out past that zone to much and try my dammed-est to close the gap of you don't see me but I see you... LOL...
Ho Hummmmm,,, life comes with so many decisions,,, I should of done this and could of done that... I think back now that I should of just kept my new to me 1980 Midland 30/06 with the used Weaver thin wire 4 power scope... Filled lots of freezers over the years,,, 60 ish feet on out to 147 yards,,, alot like the new wiz-bang rifles I own now,,, all 3 of them that is...
Oh well,,, I'll be easy to spot in the great outdoors,,, Old weathered plad lumber jack coat,,, bibbed coveralls,,, floppy Kow girl hat and leather hunting boots from the 1970's...
Jeathrow Bowdean's going hunting... Ha
Like the old guy said,,, follow your purse string,,, it will tell you how much you can afford and The left over funds will be well spent enjoying the new toy...
Life is just that simple I guess...
Cheers from the North
I'd like to jump on board for sure,,, but sometimes things in life get in the way,,, hunting,,, fishing,,, camping,,, quading,,, hiking,,, mountain biking,,, big bon-fires and a quality lawn chair,,, family and work along with many other things that add value to the mix...
I suppose I could give up everything to own 1 or 2 of them,,, but what fun would that be,,, no motor boat,,, sell the RV and Quad,,, might as well sell the snow machines,,, no need for the toy hualer... Ha
Yuppers,,, keep the frugal under powered irons I own that cost me nothing less using them,,, or have 1 or 2 awesome rifles that won't do me any good...
Won't be able to go hunting after I sell my truck and Quad,,, how would I retrieve the critter that I shot it 1 or 2 miles on the other side of the massive valley,,,.can't even get it home from the mountains since it won't fit in my little car...
I can see that my life would soon become boring since I have lots of time to look at the new guns I can't even use...
This makes me think that I should of left well enough alone and keep what I have...
Site in at 200 yards and hope for the best,,, don't reach out past that zone to much and try my dammed-est to close the gap of you don't see me but I see you... LOL...
Ho Hummmmm,,, life comes with so many decisions,,, I should of done this and could of done that... I think back now that I should of just kept my new to me 1980 Midland 30/06 with the used Weaver thin wire 4 power scope... Filled lots of freezers over the years,,, 60 ish feet on out to 147 yards,,, alot like the new wiz-bang rifles I own now,,, all 3 of them that is...
Oh well,,, I'll be easy to spot in the great outdoors,,, Old weathered plad lumber jack coat,,, bibbed coveralls,,, floppy Kow girl hat and leather hunting boots from the 1970's...
Jeathrow Bowdean's going hunting... Ha
Like the old guy said,,, follow your purse string,,, it will tell you how much you can afford and The left over funds will be well spent enjoying the new toy...
Life is just that simple I guess...
Cheers from the North
D
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greenejc
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not as well. For a projectile in .308 or smaller caliber to deliver hydrolic shock, it has to be moving above about 2000fps. For hydrostatic shock to be delivered, it needs to be moving around 2500fps. This is on Whitetail deer. On larger animals, add around 100fps. For the projectile to upset, or mushroom, it varies according to whether the bullet is bonded or monometal or a standard lead and copper alloy bullet. But most need at least 1800fps. Some will go as low as 1400fps. So the threshold for good killing power on large game is around 1400fps at a minimum, depending on the projectile. The Lazzeroni 7.84 is about comparable to the 30-378 Weatherby. It will launch a 180 grain projectile at around 3400fps. At sealevel, assuming the bullet has a B.C. of .5 (G1) velocity is about 1650fps. At 8000ft altitude, its about 2000fps. That makes it comparable to a 300 Winmag at around 700 yards, assuming a 3000fps mv for the 300 Winmag. It will kill as effectively at 1000 yards as a 300 Winmag will at 700 yards at 8000ft of altitude. The next step up is the 8.59mm Titan, or .338 Titan. It is comparable to the 338-378 Weatherby. Both of these rounds will launch a 275 grain or 300 grain bullet about 200 to 250fps faster than either the Ultra-mag or the 338 Lapua. Figuring the Lapua for about 2680, the velocity using the G1 B.C. of .6, is about 1680fps at 1000 yards. The Lazzaroni or the .338-378 Weatherby has a mv of about 2880 to around 2900fps. (This is from reloading manuals). This is about a 200fps advantage over the Lapua. Its a much higher advantage over all other readily available commercial .338 cartridges. At 8000ft, the Weatherby or the Lazzeroni arrives at around 1880fps. At 1000 yards, it is comparable to the Ultra-mag or the Lapua at 800 yards. It far and away exceeds the .338 Winmag. It has tremendous killing power. But the 300 Winmag delivers over 1800fps with a 180 grain bullet (B.C. .54) at 1000 yards, assuming an altitude of 8000ft and a mv from a 24 inch barrel of 3,000fps. This is high enough to get a non-bonded bullet to mushroom nicely, and will give rapid kills on game up to elk size if placement is good. A 30-06 is not good for distances like this. But the .300 Winmag will work. Its a lot cheaper to buy, reload for and shoot, too.
greenejc
Well-Known Member
Caveman0101
Well-Known Member
John, I'm your target audience so to speak, I first learned of the Lazz products in the '90s and had every intention of buying one. But when the time came I purchased a 300wby and later 340wby because of ammo availability. I did not reload at the time and that was my main concern. Fast forward till today I have two sons in high school and when they started hunting I bought them a 280rem and 260rem in an attempt to keep recoil manageable for young shooters. But after seeing how these rifles perform with today's bullets on game I haven't pulled the wbys out of the safe in 6 years.
You ask about effectiveness, I'm no scientist or ballistic expert but I'm pretty sure an elk killed at 700 yards with a 280rem is just as dead as one killed with anything else you care to shoot it with. The fact is we've taken 20 elk and a ton of deer and antelope with these two rifles from 50-700 yards and we haven't had to track a single one of them, they have all dropped within a few steps of being shot. If your range limit is 1000 yards on animals there are countless non-magnum rifles that will do the job day in and day out. ABLRs and ELDx fired from many of these rifles will actually perform as designed out past 1200 yards. Trust me I know the belief behind a bigger faster load allows for less than perfect shots. I also know this thinking has lead to countless wounded animals. The fact is unless you're shooting a 50 cal, shot placement is paramount with any rifle. And if I have to hit the bullseye every time on an elk, I have way more confidence doing it with a rifle I can actually watch my own bullet impact through the scope.
I hope this helps answer your question, I certainly don't intend to offend anyone, just my humble opinion developed through 40 years of killing critters.
