Coldbore shots

[Rich Coyle]

Velvet,
Is that a carefully chosen barrel or one picked at random?

David Lindler says his changes. I believe him.

 

[Velvet]

Velvet,
Is that a carefully chosen barrel or one picked at random?

David Lindler says his changes. I believe him.

random picked....

 

[crkckr]

I try to simulate whatever conditions I'll most likely be hunting in for a cold, clean first shot. If it's likely to be snowy and near zero, that's the conditions I try to take the first shot in. I also leave the rifle out for a couple of hours as well. That's easy for me as my range is in my backyard, it could be problematic for someone who has to drive an hour to the range.

I also try the same procedure with a fouled barrel, to see which works best for that rifle. I find that the custom barrels tend to shoot to point of aim better than factory over a wider range of both weather and barrel conditions, although I'm sure that's not a universal thing. Each rifle is a unique entity and they don't follow our favorite rules. That's the voodoo part of our sport! You can test for it but you can't always do anything about it.
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Velvet]

I try to simulate whatever conditions I'll most likely be hunting in for a cold, clean first shot. If it's likely to be snowy and near zero, that's the conditions I try to take the first shot in. I also leave the rifle out for a couple of hours as well. That's easy for me as my range is in my backyard, it could be problematic for someone who has to drive an hour to the range.

I also try the same procedure with a fouled barrel, to see which works best for that rifle. I find that the custom barrels tend to shoot to point of aim better than factory over a wider range of both weather and barrel conditions, although I'm sure that's not a universal thing. Each rifle is a unique entity and they don't follow our favorite rules. That's the voodoo part of our sport! You can test for it but you can't always do anything about it.
Cheers,
crkckr

How lucky you are to be able to shoot at home!
I agree with all your comments. You try to control as much as possible, but there is a universe of variables that we cannot handle, which is what makes it more attractive to me.
I will test coldbore shots, one per day, at 100y, with different ambient temperatures, and then I show the target.
I don't clean my rifles frequently, so the tests are going to be with fouled barrel. Thanks for your comment

 

[waveslayer]

Ok, I guess I will have to be the bad guy....
You shouldn't have any variation from a cold bore shot and multiple shots. If you have a proper load developed you will be fine. There have been studies and test done, usually the coldbore shot is contributed to shooter error.

Take 3-5 practice shots, dry fire, before attempting your coldbore shot and you will have zero POI shift. Your velocity should be the same how matter what. A proper load , which equates for temperature swings from ambient and barrel temp will account for all of this... being in the proper node.

So honestly, you are chasing your tail because coldbore is shooter error

 

[Rich Coyle]

I don't believe that even for a second.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Especially when the same rifle does the same thing every time and other rifles don't.

 

[436]

How lucky you are to be able to shoot at home!
I agree with all your comments. You try to control as much as possible, but there is a universe of variables that we cannot handle, which is what makes it more attractive to me.
I will test coldbore shots, one per day, at 100y, with different ambient temperatures, and then I show the target.
I don't clean my rifles frequently, so the tests are going to be with fouled barrel. Thanks for your comment

I think as MOA hunting rifles go, or close to it'..., you'll find that the example is pretty true, again it's not absolute in every case and rifle, but it should give you a good baseline to consider. Assuming you know your drops in minutes of angle (MOA), an old rule of thumb is to add 0.5 to 1.0 MOA per 5,000 feet of elevation gain: "elevation up, bullet up." And to compensate 0.5 to 1.0 MOA per 20 degrees (Fahrenheit) of temperature change: "cold down, warm-up." It's a useful (rule of thumb) or guideline as long as you recognize its limitations. Personally, over the years, I've found this pretty true in my sporting rifles as a general (wet finger) in the air rule. Where it would show up the most; was in my work rifles do to the overall higher precision of those rifles. At, most reasonable game ranges the bullets really arn't affected that much by the aforementioned do to the size of the vitals and the range of the game '.., but... on long-range shots they are; i.e at 1k 1.0 MOA is off 10.0 MOA at POI that's a lot of change in a rifle match when you are winning by X's The other problem that might bite you is.. "very High-Low" temperature changes throughout the day in a hunt or the next day, where temperatures might change 30 plus degrees or more I believe you can work out what the problem would be with that.
Read some of G David Tubb experiences in this, I shot with him a few times at NRA Whittington Center, Raton, NM he's a fountain of knowledge on subjects like this. As always; good luck with your project.

 

[Velvet]

Ok, I guess I will have to be the bad guy....
You shouldn't have any variation from a cold bore shot and multiple shots. If you have a proper load developed you will be fine. There have been studies and test done, usually the coldbore shot is contributed to shooter error.

Take 3-5 practice shots, dry fire, before attempting your coldbore shot and you will have zero POI shift. Your velocity should be the same how matter what. A proper load , which equates for temperature swings from ambient and barrel temp will account for all of this... being in the proper node.

So honestly, you are chasing your tail because coldbore is shooter error

You are not the bad guy of the movie .
It's worth clarifying, but I take special care with that coldbore shot. The construction of that shot is always the same. Same position, same breath, same back support, same bipod, etc. Concrete bench.
The muzzle speed of that first shot is always several feet / sec lower than the following shots. Always. About 30-40ps (if I´m not wrong)
The powder is H1000 (73.5gn), CCI250, ELDX220, obtaining low ES and SD (20-9 respectively). The rifle fires sub-moa (.6) consistently from the second shot onwards.
As mentioned, I do not share your point of view, but all opinions are valid.
I will document all the steps I will take in this test, and we will see the results. With a large sample of 10 shots, human error should have little influence.
Thanks for your comment

 

[DavidleeCole]

I like to wait no less than 5 minutes and measure both ammo and chamber temperature with a IR thermometer. Sometimes I have to put my rifle in the shade cause it's hot here in the south. Also I disturb my rifle such as pick it up shift the sand bags and so on to simulate a different firing position in the field. I do this after I feel good about the cold bore zero so I can see If i get first shot consistency I my positions.

 

[memtb]

To eliminate the "supposed" first shot, shooter error .....shoot another rifle several times before the "cold bore" shot from the "subject"rifle!

I do not "buy into" the shooter error concept, either. I have some rifles that exhibit poi shift as barrels heat, while others are very forgiving. As a potential "point of interest"....my worst offender is a .223 Rem., in a Win. Featherweight. My rifle that is least affected by barrel heating, is my 9.0 pound, "Un-braked" .375 AI. One would think if "shooter error" were the culprit.... the AI would be "the girl most likely"! I guess I "dated myself" with that reference! memtb

 

[Velvet]

To eliminate the "supposed" first shot, shooter error .....shoot another rifle several times before the "cold bore" shot from the "subject"rifle!
memtb

It could be, to eliminate any anxiety, if any.
But as I said before, I carefully build that shot.

 

[Greyfox]

Ok, I guess I will have to be the bad guy....
You shouldn't have any variation from a cold bore shot and multiple shots. If you have a proper load developed you will be fine. There have been studies and test done, usually the coldbore shot is contributed to shooter error.

Take 3-5 practice shots, dry fire, before attempting your coldbore shot and you will have zero POI shift. Your velocity should be the same how matter what. A proper load , which equates for temperature swings from ambient and barrel temp will account for all of this... being in the proper node.

So honestly, you are chasing your tail because coldbore is shooter error

I haven't experienced this, and have seen barrels that clearly throw a cold bore shot. IMO, if dry firing warm-up is necessary, the shooter is in need of more familiarity with his rifle, or perhaps even further skill development. If shooter error was so prevalent for first/cold bore shot in a controlled setting, what happens with the excitement when confronted with the shot at an animal under field conditions?

 

[Velvet]

I haven't experienced this, and have seen barrels that clearly throw a cold bore shot. IMO, if dry firing warm-up is necessary, the shooter is in need of more familiarity with his rifle, or perhaps even further skill development. If shooter error was so prevalent for first/cold bore shot in a controlled setting, what happens with the excitement when confronted with the shot at an animal under field conditions?

You could not have summed it up better