bigngreen
Well-Known Member
What primers are you using?
can i shoot berger out of my WSM?
- Thread starter Wheatgerm
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I had one that rejected CCI 250's but was bugholes with CCI 200 or Fed 215's, it would hurt IMO to load up a different primer if you have options. I keep every primer brand and type I can and I just do a test to make dang sure I'm getting the best light on the powder I can. It can be frustrating but all you need is to pull in a flyer and you've got a killer load, some times it's easy and sometimes it hard specially when your starting out with a new bullet.
Well thanks for the encouragement. I do have some cci 200's kicking around I guess it wouldn't hurt to load some up and kick 3 out to see what happens?. It doesn't make sense to me that 2 are flying so good but one decides to go the wrong direction?
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Look on the bright side, your 66% to a killer load 
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
I guess I never mentioned it, but I use Fed 210's, but I never plan on shooting it at temps below freezing.
As far as starting over.....just get 1 lb of H4350. Start at 58 or 59 gr, load em 1 grain apart (59, 60, 61, ect) to 64g. Just three shot groups...nothing more. If you don't see any PSI signs, kick it up another gr., ect, till you hit the end. I like to KNOW where max is on all of my guns. You are bound to see at least one good group on your way up. When you do, load up three or six more of that load, along with three up a 1/2gr and down 1/2 gr. Load em out as far as you can and still fit in the mag.
Now, as far as your bench setup.... Beg, borrow or steal a front rest and rear bag from someone for testing. Be sure to remove your swivel studs .....they get in the way and tear up bags. If your forend is way narrow, try setting a leather glove on the bag to help snug the stock in the bag and keep the front of your gun stable. Or buy an "accuracy asset" for your stock....look it up.
The next paragraph is only my opinion...learned from thousands of rounds off of the bench with both hard kicking hunting cannons and benchrest guns.....the guys can flame me if they want about it....I have enough tropies on the wall (both the fake wood kind and the furry kind) to prove that it works for me. I have shot more bugholes with "poor shooting ***'s" that my friends give me to "work on" because thay can't get them to shoot. The answer....Poor bench manners on their part....death grips....flinching...no idea about paralex,....ect.... Skip over it if you would like.
I am not sure how tolerent you are as far as recoil, but try not to hold the gun in a "death grip". When I am bench testing my hard kickers, I give myself a little room as far as the scope goes. I only have the trigger hand on the gun...the "free" hand is the bag squeezer, not the gun holder. I slide my face back away from the scope....way back. The further back you go, ths smaller the field of view is in the scope. I am usually back far enough so that only the bull is showing in the center of the scope.....maybe 1/2 the field of view. This gives me some assurance that I won't be a bloody mess for the ride home. I am not talking about free recoil, just NOT a death grip. And if I lose the ever so important "cheek weld"...so what, we are on the bench...cheek weld just messes up accuracy when shooting from the bench. Also, make sure that you hold the gun the same for all the shots....just because the cross hair is on the mothball doen't mean that the gun is in the same position on the bags. Try to wiggle and jiggle and slide the gun into position the same for each shot....this is HUGELY important with a hard kicking hunting gun....because the gun will be actually moving a fraction before the bullet leaves the bbl...you want it to move the same each time.
I am sure your WSM will give you several thousand rounds of accuracy. If it takes several hundred rounds to find the "special" load, so what. If anything, it will make you a better shooter, and give you LOADS of first hand knowlege about handloading...not to mention that it is BIG FUN!!!
Keep us posted.... All good stuff.
As far as starting over.....just get 1 lb of H4350. Start at 58 or 59 gr, load em 1 grain apart (59, 60, 61, ect) to 64g. Just three shot groups...nothing more. If you don't see any PSI signs, kick it up another gr., ect, till you hit the end. I like to KNOW where max is on all of my guns. You are bound to see at least one good group on your way up. When you do, load up three or six more of that load, along with three up a 1/2gr and down 1/2 gr. Load em out as far as you can and still fit in the mag.
Now, as far as your bench setup.... Beg, borrow or steal a front rest and rear bag from someone for testing. Be sure to remove your swivel studs .....they get in the way and tear up bags. If your forend is way narrow, try setting a leather glove on the bag to help snug the stock in the bag and keep the front of your gun stable. Or buy an "accuracy asset" for your stock....look it up.
The next paragraph is only my opinion...learned from thousands of rounds off of the bench with both hard kicking hunting cannons and benchrest guns.....the guys can flame me if they want about it....I have enough tropies on the wall (both the fake wood kind and the furry kind) to prove that it works for me. I have shot more bugholes with "poor shooting ***'s" that my friends give me to "work on" because thay can't get them to shoot. The answer....Poor bench manners on their part....death grips....flinching...no idea about paralex,....ect.... Skip over it if you would like.
I am not sure how tolerent you are as far as recoil, but try not to hold the gun in a "death grip". When I am bench testing my hard kickers, I give myself a little room as far as the scope goes. I only have the trigger hand on the gun...the "free" hand is the bag squeezer, not the gun holder. I slide my face back away from the scope....way back. The further back you go, ths smaller the field of view is in the scope. I am usually back far enough so that only the bull is showing in the center of the scope.....maybe 1/2 the field of view. This gives me some assurance that I won't be a bloody mess for the ride home. I am not talking about free recoil, just NOT a death grip. And if I lose the ever so important "cheek weld"...so what, we are on the bench...cheek weld just messes up accuracy when shooting from the bench. Also, make sure that you hold the gun the same for all the shots....just because the cross hair is on the mothball doen't mean that the gun is in the same position on the bags. Try to wiggle and jiggle and slide the gun into position the same for each shot....this is HUGELY important with a hard kicking hunting gun....because the gun will be actually moving a fraction before the bullet leaves the bbl...you want it to move the same each time.
I am sure your WSM will give you several thousand rounds of accuracy. If it takes several hundred rounds to find the "special" load, so what. If anything, it will make you a better shooter, and give you LOADS of first hand knowlege about handloading...not to mention that it is BIG FUN!!!
Keep us posted.... All good stuff.
Thanks 4x. Im going to try a few more with my load with different primers today if it doesn't work. Ill be starting over with h4350 it seems to be well tested powder that alot of people use. I will keep you guys posted. My shoulder is getting pretty raw but i've been trying not to flinch on the bench, im sure as much as I try not to flinch im sure it still happens
Is it possible I may not be cleaning my gun well enough? Every time the gum comes home it gets cleaned with gunslick foam, I let it set for 20 min then brush the crap out of it with a nylon brush. Use patches until they run clean then run a slightly oiled patch down the barrel then one more dry patch?
I was just looking over the gun (I cleaned it last night) and noticed a little bit of what looks like copper in the rifling. If this copper has been building up while I thought I was cleaning it out then I can see how I have been losing accuracy.
I thought the gunslick got rid of copper and powder residue? Does anyone have an opinion on this?
I was just looking over the gun (I cleaned it last night) and noticed a little bit of what looks like copper in the rifling. If this copper has been building up while I thought I was cleaning it out then I can see how I have been losing accuracy.
I thought the gunslick got rid of copper and powder residue? Does anyone have an opinion on this?
COBrad
Well-Known Member
4X makes some sound comments here. Technique makes a difference. I have not spent enough time using primers as a primary source of accuracy tuning to comment on that, but I can say from my experience that seating depth is a critical factor. There are a number of ways to develop loads. One I have used extensively is the Audette Ladder method. Do a search for it here, or google it. Another I have worked with just this year is promoted by well known bench rest shooter Tony Boyer, in his book "The Book Of Rifle Accuracy". To summarize, he suggests load up in half grain increments to max, then start testing seating depth. He suggests 3 shot groups to start with, because if it won't shoot 3 well, it's not going to get better with more. There is a lot more about tuning a load, but this is the basic idea.
Many times I have been able to reel in a flyer with seating depth, but I have also learned not to spend too much time with a load combo that does not want to shoot. Try several powders. H4350 gets mentioned a lot because it has a history of working well in this caliber. I shot a lot of H4831 through one I had, and it gave 3/4" groups with the bullets I tried it with. That from a factory Kimber. That rifle just wanted to shoot from the start.
It can be a frustrating and time consuming task developing a load, but when you hit on one that works, happiness is found. One last thought... your rifle is a factory rifle. We read on the 'net of the factory rifles that will shoot the hairs off a gnats *** at 5000 yards. There are a few, but my experience has been most factory rifles don't shoot like that. Try several powders, a few different bullets and primers. If you see a pattern and a limit to what the rifle wants to do, that is probably a pretty good indicator of the potential of your rifle. If you want a real tack driver there will probably be some gunsmithing involved.
Many times I have been able to reel in a flyer with seating depth, but I have also learned not to spend too much time with a load combo that does not want to shoot. Try several powders. H4350 gets mentioned a lot because it has a history of working well in this caliber. I shot a lot of H4831 through one I had, and it gave 3/4" groups with the bullets I tried it with. That from a factory Kimber. That rifle just wanted to shoot from the start.
It can be a frustrating and time consuming task developing a load, but when you hit on one that works, happiness is found. One last thought... your rifle is a factory rifle. We read on the 'net of the factory rifles that will shoot the hairs off a gnats *** at 5000 yards. There are a few, but my experience has been most factory rifles don't shoot like that. Try several powders, a few different bullets and primers. If you see a pattern and a limit to what the rifle wants to do, that is probably a pretty good indicator of the potential of your rifle. If you want a real tack driver there will probably be some gunsmithing involved.
dakor
Well-Known Member
In my Tikka 300wsm I am using Win brass with CCI 250 Mag primers and 70gr of R-19 with the 190 Berger seated to fit in the clip. I know you are using the 185 Berger but I would try R-19. I would start around 67gr and work up. I would guess my OAL would fit in your mag box the Tikka's have a real short clip. You might also want to try the 190 Berger. I found R-19 gave me the best Velocity and Accuracy with bullets over 180gr. My load is pushing them around 2960fps and is not hot in my rifle.
Thanks guys. What's really irritating is that my hornady load was shooting 3/4 group last month and now its shooting just like the bergers. I thought that gunslick was supposed to remove copper but I see plenty of copper left on the riflings. If the copper has been building up this whole time then I can see why there isn't a bullet around that will shoot well out of this gun. I ran and got some sweets solvent im going to strip all this copper out and go shoot again with the 2 different primers. If I dont have success tonight I believe I will be getting a pound of 4350 and starting all over. Keep in touch everyone you all have been a ton of help to a reloading newb
The gun is copperfowled like crazy. Ive been running sweets solvent threw gun)it for the last half hour still getting blue patches.... note to self, gunslick seems to work well on powder residue but is not the top choice for copper. I have no idea if this will fix my load problem but My guess is the gun shoots alot better tonight. Man I feel dumb.
I cleaned with gunslick first the patches ran clean, used sweets and found out it was anything but,
I cleaned with gunslick first the patches ran clean, used sweets and found out it was anything but,
