7MM Rem Mag vs 6.5 CM at 600 yards on cow elk

[The Oregonian]

@The Oregonian,

Lots of folks don't consider foot pounds of energy a valid measure. For them your numbers are irrelevant. Apparently the numbers are irrelevant for one of the elk.

I think the same could be said about many things - people have different opinions on what it takes to kill or put a bullet on target (speed vs BC, bullet weight, etc). And it doesn't mean that you can't kill an elk below 1500 or deer below 1000, but it does mean, for many people, that below 1500 is marginal for elk. I think this experience is anecdotal evidence rather than empirical but would support the 1500 being marginal.

It is not black and white but it is directionally accurate in my mind, at least in general and on average.

 

[dogz]

3100 with a 150 out of a 280 Ack is honking on it pretty hard IMO. Unless one is sporting a really long barrel.

Run the Ack and the 7RM at the same pressures and then see what you have. The RM's got a bigger case, hence it's going to have more speed. Unless one is pushing the dog snot out of the AI, which my experience has been that happens a lot with that case.

Oddly, the 6.5 CM is hammered to heck as well....I say if you want 6.5/06 speeds then just build one.

Side rant, sorry all but I feel better...

 

[dogz]

IMO, people on this site put entirely too much stock in energy numbers. Energy isn't the killing factor, bullets being pushed fast enough at the target to reliably open them up will take out the machinery needed to take the critter down quickly.

Obviously there's some disgression to be used in terms of what bullet to run but if one avoids extremes one will do allright.

Just my thoughts, doesn't have to be anyone elses.

 

[Ucsdryder]

3100 with a 150 out of a 280 Ack is honking on it pretty hard IMO. Unless one is sporting a really long barrel.

Run the Ack and the 7RM at the same pressures and then see what you have. The RM's got a bigger case, hence it's going to have more speed. Unless one is pushing the dog snot out of the AI, which my experience has been that happens a lot with that case.

Oddly, the 6.5 CM is hammered to heck as well....I say if you want 6.5/06 speeds then just build one.

Side rant, sorry all but I feel better...

I think both numbers are really pushing it. 2950 out of a creedmore is absolutely smoking. My creedmore is doing 2750 with stout hand loads (20" barrel plus suppressor)

 

[dogz]

I ran the ballostics for both, using the 143 ELD-x at 2950 and the 7mag at 3100 (middle of Nosler load data) with the 150 GK.

Both were underpowered for elk at 600 yards. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it sounds like a little research and a little more discipline (I.e. not shooting just bc it is the last day of the season and saying "why not". Both are under 1500 ft/lbs at 600 yards.

And yes, OP, the 6.5cr carries more energy due to BC. In other words, the 7mag bullet selection was poor judging by the energy retained at 600, due to the BC being .436. My 280ai has over 500 ft/lbs more energy than the 7mag with a different bullet weight, BC, and velocity.

Side note, I used the GK out of my 280AI on Shooter at 3100 fps, which would give the same results as a 7mag at the same velocity and bullet. View attachment 310644View attachment 310645View attachment 310646

Take the 6.5 CM speed down to a sane level of 2700 and then run the chart

 

[dogz]

I think both numbers are really pushing it. 2950 out of a creedmore is absolutely smoking. My creedmore is doing 2750 with stout hand loads (20" barrel plus suppressor)

Absolutely! My 24.5" barreled one would run the 140's right at 2700 without me horn honking on it. I've been loading for 50 plus years, and I've run my stages of starting out and being very conservative to, my years of I can red line the dog **** out of it with no signs of presssures....wink wink to where I'm at now which is I'll run them top end and I'm always using a chronograph and always watching primer pocket life.

Again, as I've said before my way isn't for a lot of others not trying to make it be so.

 

[The Oregonian]

3100 with a 150 out of a 280 Ack is honking on it pretty hard IMO. Unless one is sporting a really long barrel.

Run the Ack and the 7RM at the same pressures and then see what you have. The RM's got a bigger case, hence it's going to have more speed. Unless one is pushing the dog snot out of the AI, which my experience has been that happens a lot with that case.

Oddly, the 6.5 CM is hammered to heck as well....I say if you want 6.5/06 speeds then just build one.

Side rant, sorry all but I feel better...

The rifle it comes out of is irrelevant for this - this is only to show the ballistics....it is a 7mm bore sending a 150 GK at 3100. I am not trying to do anything other than compare HIS ballistics and his friend's ballistics. I had my rifle profile built in shooter and it was easier to do this than build a new rifle profile. No difference at the end of the day.

I could have it at 4100 fps out of a 280ai and it will give me the ballistics even though the pressure would be out of hand and not possible.

 

[Carp1]

My daughter shot a bull elk at 794 yards last week with a 6.5 Creedmoor and dropped him in his tracks. I watched his back legs fold up and fall over and never get back up. I don't have all the specifics on the set up since she used the guides gun ( my 270 was set up out to 500 yards) but he had handloaded 156gr Berger Extreme Outer Limits Elite Hunter bullet. It was a custom built rifle with a Defiance action.

 

[dogz]

My daughter shot a bull elk at 794 yards last week with a 6.5 Creedmoor and dropped him in his tracks. I watched his back legs fold up and fall over and never get back up. I don't have all the specifics on the set up since she used the guides gun ( my 270 was set up out to 500 yards) but he had handloaded 156gr Berger Extreme Outer Limits Elite Hunter bullet. It was a custom built rifle with a Defiance action.

Sweet, at almost 800 yards which is a long poke for the most experienced of rifleman...I'm betting she hit the spine true or not?

Did the bull need any additional rounds?

 

[Wyo37]

My daughter shot a bull elk at 794 yards last week with a 6.5 Creedmoor and dropped him in his tracks. I watched his back legs fold up and fall over and never get back up. I don't have all the specifics on the set up since she used the guides gun ( my 270 was set up out to 500 yards) but he had handloaded 156gr Berger Extreme Outer Limits Elite Hunter bullet. It was a custom built rifle with a Defiance action.

Curious on shot placement too, but not the first I've heard of a 6.5 creed dropping an elk at almost 800.

 

[Carp1]

I think it was a spinal shot too. we didn't gut him, just quartered him. When we got over to him, he could throw his head around but couldn't use his legs. We put a .40 in him to finish him off.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I think it was a spinal shot too. we didn't gut him, just quartered him. When we got over to him, he could throw his head around but couldn't use his legs. We put a .40 in him to finish him off.

I'm not sure if this was a post for or against the long range creedmore!

 

[dogz]

generally speaking to me shots to the spine don't mean much of anything regarding what a round can or cannot do

 

[Ucsdryder]

generally speaking to me shots to the spine don't mean much of anything regarding what a round can or cannot do

definitely speaks to the shooters ability though…but little else.