45-70 Bullet for Bison Hunt

[RAGGED EDGE]

I use Cast Performance bullets in a .480 Ruger pistol. They are hard and ,if the flat meplat type, will do a good job on a bison. I killed one with a flat meplat, hard-cast lead bullet (not a CP) out of a .50 muzzleloader ( .45 cal. in a sabot). Medium- sized younger bull @ around 75 yards. Shot through the lungs, he lasted about 20 seconds. That was after we chased them on foot about 2 miles into a canyon. I couldn't get reloaded before he expired. Can't help with a load, but IMO your velocity parameters are good. I was in the neighborhood of 1600 fps in the M/L.

 

[Nomosendero]

Thanks

 

[Dean2]

I enjoyed this thread and very glad to hear the OP had a great result. I will say however, that the modern internet has caused people to worry WAY, WAY WAY too much about bullets velocity, caliber and the like. Maybe it is because so many don't get very many chances at live game that they don't want to take any chances at messing up, but realistically, we have been killing stuff for 400 years with powder and lead, and pointy sticks of all sorts for long before that.

Stuff dies if you make a hole in the right place. The most incompetent round we use today is vastly superior to any pointy stick and 99% of anything that was leading edge that we used just 100 years ago. If you focus on placement of the hole, pretty much everything from Mastadons to gophers are going to die.

 

[Exterminate1]

Saw this thread.
I have a Cow Buffalo hunt in February, I have purchased Qty, 200 Cast performance 405 Grain GC bullet. I don't have any 4198 but I have a lot of Varget.
I plan on 1750-1800 FPS.
Has anyone used that bullet ?
Thanks

I've used quite a few cast performance bullets on pigs. Are used to guide them. I've taken boars in the 350+ range and two Elk with good success using a 45 70 and a 475 Revolver. I was running them at about 1600 FPS. They would penetrate about 6 ft of animal.

Great penetration but was not putting them down very fast. Switched to 405g soft point much better stoppers.

 

[Nomosendero]

Thanks for the info and it makes sense. It would seem the hard cast would do better if I go for bone.
Thanks

 

[Exterminate1]

In the picture of the pig the bullet went between his eyes down his neck breaking a few vertebrae through his chest and ended up in the skin on the back of the ham. He was about 6 foot in length. The shot was it about 10 feet. That was with a cast performance bullet I think it was in the 400 grain range.

 

[mnoland30]

I have shot similar bullets from Harvester in my muzzleloader for elk at 1750 fps. They will absolutely penetrate! Mine went through front shoulder and exited rear ham on opposite side. The elk went about 200 yards before laying down to die. I like more expansion and faster kills, but a pure lead bullet at higher velocities usually doesn't exit, so I believe somewhere in beween is the right answer. The large flat point is definitely the right approach. Pointy bullets go in like a needle and don't leave a hole that bleeds. I've had good luck with 405 gr. Remington (no longer available) jacketed bullets. Frank Mayer's "The Buffalo Harvest" is a good read on how it was done in the old days.

 

[BPollard]

After watching what a 300g Barnes X did to a black bear my son shot, the first thing that went thru mule mind was how awesome it would be to shoot a Buffalo or Brown Bear with one.

I concur. The Barnes bullet is the way to go maybe a little heavier bullet like the 350

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I concur. The Barnes bullet is the way to go maybe a little heavier bullet like the 350

The Swift 350 A-Frame gives you the best of both worlds on tough critters. You can run them pretty fast, expansion is controlled, and they penetrate more like a hard cast.

 

[BPollard]

Good call. yeah I wasn't thinking. I shoot a 210 Swift a frame out of my 338 Win mag

 

[CMP70306]

Saw this thread.
I have a Cow Buffalo hunt in February, I have purchased Qty, 200 Cast performance 405 Grain GC bullet. I don't have any 4198 but I have a lot of Varget.
I plan on 1750-1800 FPS.
Has anyone used that bullet ?
Thanks

What rifle are you using? I assume based on the speed it's a modern lever gun or single shot.

 

[skipglo]

HSM makes a 403 plus "P"......great round. As stated above...you don't need to keep shooting till they fall over...they are thick skinned but not hard to kill at all...keep in mind that they were killed with bows that probably had a max draw weight of 40-50 lbs and wood sticks with Sharp Rocks attached!

 

[Dean2]

HSM makes a 403 plus "P"......great round. As stated above...you don't need to keep shooting till they fall over...they are thick skinned but not hard to kill at all...keep in mind that they were killed with bows that probably had a max draw weight of 40-50 lbs and shot sticks with Sharp Rocks attached!

Actually, Indians shooting Bison with primitive Bows and Arrows is fiction and the result of too many really bad Westerns. The vast majority that were killed on the run from horseback were killed with a long lance that was plunged into the Bison, sometimes a few times, to puncture the lungs. Multiple animals could be killed in this way. The other common method was to run them over a cliff. There are many sites that still remain where this was done, Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump is one that has been turned into a UNESCO Heritage historic site.

Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump World Heritage Site

Where the foothills of the Rocky Mountains meet the Great Plains sits one of the world’s largest, oldest, and best-preserved buffalo jumps.

headsmashedin.ca

 

[Don Titus]

I have shot similar bullets from Harvester in my muzzleloader for elk at 1750 fps. They will absolutely penetrate! Mine went through front shoulder and exited rear ham on opposite side. The elk went about 200 yards before laying down to die. I like more expansion and faster kills, but a pure lead bullet at higher velocities usually doesn't exit, so I believe somewhere in beween is the right answer. The large flat point is definitely the right approach. Pointy bullets go in like a needle and don't leave a hole that bleeds. I've had good luck with 405 gr. Remington (no longer available) jacketed bullets. Frank Mayer's "The Buffalo Harvest" is a good read on how it was done in the old days.

This thread really got me thinking about planning a bison hunt. To make it more interesting, I will probably use my Remington 700 Ultimate 50 cal (.45 plus sabot). With 101 grains (wt) of Blackhorn 209 and a 330 grain Harvester bullet @ 2150, ballistically it is very similar to a comparable 45/70 load.

Thanks guys for sharing your experiences, you really got me thinking about bison in 2026 …I have hunts planned for Newfoundland in 23, WY in 24 and CO in 25. If the good Lord gives me a thumbs up I'll be chasing bison in 2026 at the age of 84!