300 Weatherby?

[WyomingLawDog]

Hi, I am new to this forum. I little background on myself, I from Wyoming. I am an avid elk hunter. I am a Police Officer and a Navy Vet. I was an expect rifleman in the Navy, but no where near a good long distance shooter as I have not tried long distance shooting. My question is, I was debating on buying a .338 RUM to make into a long distance shooting rifle for hunting only, mainly Antelope and Elk. My deer shoots don't tend to be as long usually. I have a 300 Weatherby with a Bushnell 3x9x40 on it. I have shot a bull elk a few years ago at 400 yards, that is the most I would consider shooting it, that was with holding it over the top of it's shoulders. I have never messed with setting dope/moa or anything like that, no little about that. My expert rifleman was with an M16 and iron sights. I know very little about adjusting for wind which I need to learn as the wind very rarely stops blowing in Wyoming. I want to make a long distance rifle for 1,000 to 1,200 yards. I have seen many elk across valleys that have been at those ranges only to spooke them trying to get closer to them in big herds or get down into deep timber to try to get close to them and have a steep upward shot and not be able to stalk within range I am comfortable shooting with my setup above (400 yards), missed opportunity on good elk cause of this. I know little about my 300 Weatherby, bought it new and shot a couple elk with it only factory ammo. My question is this a good long distance shooter or would I be happier buying the .338 RUM. I am debating on putting good glass on the 300 Weatherby, just don't know enough about it which is my fault. The other thing, I don't even know if my Weatherby has an adjustable trigger cause I hate it, It is a very hard and heavy trigger pull. I like a little light smooth trigger pull, so if it is not adjustable I would take it to a smith and have a trigger job done on it if I use my rifle. Do I hand load rounds as I am using currently using factory loads, Remington core lock 180 grain rounds. I see another member shot an elk at 1,168 yards with a 300 Weatherby, Is that capable shot after shot? If I can make a good dependable accurate long range shooter out of the 300 Weatherby, I would do that. My main concerns are I don't know what the capabilities are of this rifle, energy at these ranges and the other is the effect of the wind on these rounds compared to a heavier round from a .338 RUM. Then do I keep the gun stock except the trigger or have a smith go through it to do some mods on it for long distance shooting along with good glass which brings up another question. I keep hearing don't go cheep on the optics, can I get a good scope in the $1,200 to $1,500 range for shooting 1,000 to 1,200 yards? I don't have the money for a $3000+ night force scope, well lets resentence that, I do but my wife with shoot me with it after I purchased it. I could justify a $1,100 gun (Remington Model 700 XCR II .338 RUM) and another $1,200 or little more for a scope if need be. I know both the .338 and .300 are very large for Antelope but I don't want to build 2 rifles, if I can get an Antelope early season, I can usually get with in couple hundred yards with my 30-06 or .243, if it is late season they can stay 1,000 or more yards from you after being shot at. Thanks for any comments.

 

[longrangehunterII]

The 300 Weatherby will most definitely get the job done for Elk and Deer out to 600-800 yards, but here's the deal.

Is your gun/ammo combination capable of shooting under 1 MOA? Are you able to put 9 out of 10 rounds on target at the range you wish to engage a target/game?

If not you'll need to find a load that will deliver a down range bullet that will hold at least 1 MOA, as well as you being able to do that under field conditions.

You didn't mention which type of Weatherby you have? Mark V, or Vanguard? Accumark or a Vanguard MOA gun, both of those should help with precision LR shooting. The trigger needs to be replaced or worked over for sure if you're ever going to keep using this gun. You could vastly improve your accuracy by hand-loading your ammo or finding a factory load that will shoot under 1 MOA.

As well as buying a scope that can accurately dial out to distance is a must. Guessing and/or estimating hold over/ Kentucky windage is old school, so why not just use a proper scope to allow you to either dial or use the reticle for holdover.

A 338 is generally not needed for Elk/Deer gun, recoil is increased considerably and any big 300 shooting heavy for caliber bullet will accomplish the same outcome as long as shot placement is good.

Here's a scope I have FS that came off my 300 Jarrett that will allow you to either dial or you could use the reticle out to 1,200 + yards without having to dial.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...p-r2-illuminated-reticle-w-3-sunshade-143917/

Buy quality first, decide if you would like to use Mrad/Mil or MOA and whether or not you'll be using your scope for range estimating and if FFP or SFP matters to you?

The scope I have shown you is a second focal plane scope, meaning the reticle doesn't grow with magnification. Personal preference in my own opinion. If range estimation at any magnification is your thing and you don't mind having a reticle growing larger and larger with the increased magnification then FFP would be better? I have both types, I can say a fine reticle can or does help with a slightly smaller reticle covering the target. It just depends on the reticle you choose? They are all slightly different and boils down to personal preference?

Honestly you'll need to practice with the equipment you own and be proficient using it. That means having an App that will accurate give you the data needed to make those long shots, a scope that will track perfectly and you own ability as well as the gun you use to place the bullets on target every time.

 

[Dskiper]

hello, I love the .300 weatherby as its one of the finest long range calibers out there.consider a rebarrel (#4or5) and look to LRH used optics list to save money!my rifle has a26"-#4 st.st. barrel w/muzzle brake. Shooter it is. 1.75"groups @200yrds. its got a1/11"twist to shoot 180gr.ammo. muzzlebrake tames recoil to .270 level. try Hornady ammo to save @range.

 

[WyomingLawDog]

Ok, So I am learning more about my 300 Weatherby. It is a Vanguard, did not know there was 2 different types. But I just looked my rifle up which is a plain model, black synthetic stock, 24 in blued barrel which I am reading is too short to get full performance of the 300 Weatherby case for powder burn as with a 24 barrel is not much over a 300 win mag but with a longer barrel you get the benefits of the larger case in the 300 Weatherby, so maybe I should price longer barrels. I read the difference between the two different model. Mine is only a 2 lug compared to a 9 lug in a Mark V, don't know much about that except mine goes to a 90 degree angle to open the bolt compared to a 54 degrees in a Mark V, so cambering a new round takes longer. But it does not say that the Mark V is any more accurate than the Vanguard, Weatherby guarantees a 1.5 MOA at 100 yards in both models. So I understand 3 shots to be within 1.5 inches at 100 yards on factory ammo but says it generally shoots smaller groups than that right out of the box. So now with that being said does this change the game any? Shooting my Remington Core Lock 180 grain factory rounds, sighted in at 100 yards on a bench in a weighted gun sled, I was shooting 3 rounds within 1 inch of each other easy without letting barrel cool all the way down, I sight in all my guns on this sled so I know if I miss it is me and not the gun. I use a range finder for the distance which I am also looking to buy a good 1,500 plus yard one and my current range finder is only a 800 yard one. Don't know what FFP or SFP means. I kinda know what a Mil dot is but don't know anything about it and don't know how to calculate MOA either. I heard to it referred to setting or adjusting your dope and they had a card taped to their butt stock with dope adjustments for different yardage by clicks, I am guessing that is the same as MOA? Have no clue how to adjust for wind or even calculate the wind to adjust for it. Yes I am very old school and did everything by hold over and Kentucky Windage which I know will not work for long range shooting, so I am trying to learn what I need to do and buy the rite stuff. Thanks for your help again. Last Christmas, my father in-law/wife bought me a reloading press, have not taken it out of the box yet, guess I better learn how to start reloading.

 

[AKGuide]

I would definitely setup your press and start reading a little into reloading your own ammo. You are leaving a lot of potential on the table without reloading. With your rifle even in a 24" barrel I would guess that you could get 2850 to 2900 using a 215 berger and this would be a very capable long range load. It would most likely end up being a single shot with the long throat of the weatherby's, as you would have to seat the bullets further out and longer than SAAMI spec to get close to the lands. H1000, Retumbo, Reloader25 and imr7828 would all be good powders to attempt to achieve desired velocity and accuracy using the heavier offerings of bullets. IMR's new 7977 looks like it might be a winner also. Lightening the trigger is one of the most effective ways of shooting smaller groups and would be the first thing I would to to your rifle followed by a proper bedding job.

Reuben

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you want to get into reloading, watch all of this guy's getting started videos. They helped me alot when I was first getting started.

Iraqveteran8888 - YouTube

 

[longrangehunterII]

Get the ABC's of reloading, also read the reloading section in the various reloading manuals before you start to do any reloading. You'll need to fully understand each aspect of the reloading processes.

A 24" barrel is loosing you 26-32 fps per inch, and a lot of the slower powders for the Wby. could benefit from having a 26" barrel.

The Vanguard action is a well made action and can be re-barreled to produce an accurate rifle. I had a 243 and had Hart Rifle Barrels re-barrel it to 7mm-08 Rem. they did a fantastic job bedding the barreled action, truing it up and would group a 160 AB into a 1 1/2" @ 300 yards. Point being that's three time the distance a factory Wby. guarantees, although the Vanguard Sub MOA rifles would produce under an inch @ 100 yards. Something in the 5/8"-3/4" is a good load under field conditions in a hunting weight gun, the better the group the tighter is will remain long range. You just have to be able to place the bullet where it needs to go, which when it comes down to it doesn't matter what caliber you use as long as the bullet is made for hunting the game involved.

It boils down to this:

How much time you really want to invest in becoming a precision marksman?

How much money you want to spend in order to have the kind of accuracy you'd like to have in a weapon?

The further out you shoot, the more precise the ammo/gun and shooter needs to be. Along with learning how to dial and/or hold for windage and elevation. Plus the tools needed to make those long distance calls, a wind meter that has a weather meter built in, like the Kestrel 4000-4500, a Shooter Ballistics App on your phone, a good chronograph, electronic powder scale, calipers, etc. etc. etc.

This isn't something just money can by, not really. You can use Match Grade ammunition for a few calibers, like the 308 Win. and the 300 Win. Mag. But hand loading takes time to learn, money for bullets and powder and the tools needed to make good ammo. A really good custom gun will sent you back 3K-4K plus the scope needed. GA Precision makes some of the most accurate guns in this price range, I have two his guns and the workmanship is second to none.

You'll need to make your mind up on how far you really want to dive into this? I say that only because it does cost money to have high quality equipment. Not to say you need a full custom gun, you don't really. I have a Kimber Montana re-barreled by Shilen in 6.5/300 WSM that will out shoot a lot of custom guns out there with my hand-loads, but a wildcat isn't for everybody and not a novice.

If you can hand-load the gun you're using now to shoot under an inch, 1/2"-3/4", the 50-60 fps loss in velocity isn't a big deal, but you'll need a decent bullet in the 165-200 gr. range with decent BC and be able to hit a target at 400-600 yards 90% of the time.

It really is more about what you're capable of doing on a consistent basis with the equipment you have that matters most. The further you push the limits is when those shots tend to be outside of your POA, and who wants a wounded animal running around injured because of your mistake. Which is why I chose to practice with the best equipment I could afford at the time and become a proficient marksman.

Read as much as you can and then use it in the field. This isn't something that wont take a lot of reading and field use, but it does require proper training and technique plus time using what you've learned.

Good Luck and Keep 'M in the Ten Ring.

 

[Jaxdialation]

1000 yard hunting shots is an extreme challenge. Nearly impossible with any significant variable wind.

I'd go with a 338 caliber. And be prepared to shoot hundreds of rounds getting your skills up to snuff. In other words think this over, you are biting off a BIG challenge.
Very few people can cold bore a shot into a 12 inch square at 1000 yards 90% of the time, let alone do it in hunting conditions.

I want to make a long distance rifle for 1,000 to 1,200 yards. =

 

[Dosh]

WLD, my son's co-worker has a bunch of kids and doesn't have a lot of spare cash. He hunts cow elk for freezer meat for his family. His dad gave him a Wby Vanguard with the black plastic stock just like yours. He worked some extra OT and we got a nice Timney trigger $112 at their plant, a Boyd's stock $114 and some Marine-Tex epoxy $9. I bedded the stock, lapped the rings and installed the trigger. I donated 180 Accubonds, powder and primers with his Remington brass. His Vanguard shoots just under 1 inch at 200 and after lots of practice he has a cow elk in the freezer for his family. I'm sure this rifle could reach to 500 yds but realistically not much beyond. He's happy and my son and I are happy for him. Realistically you will need some serious cash to upgrade to 1000+ yards with that rifle. Good luck

 

[roninflag]

the rifle is more important than the caliber. a rifle capable of what you are talking about is fairly expensive. it would take a lot of practice/ shooting/ loading. REM 700 action , krieger barrel ( or equivalent) leup mk4 scope 6.5 to 20 . and swaro range finder. i have only competed out to 1000 that is tough enough. i have no experience beyond that.

 

[roninflag]

for 600 to 1000 , a remington sendero or winchester laredo . no wait , you can start shooting now, as soon as you get a scope mounted.

 

[WildRose]

Dog, you've gotten some pretty good advice. The 300wby is more than capable caliber wise and it sounds like it's already shooting well enough for you to stretch out with confindence.

Out to 600yds, it's basically just marksmanship. If your fundamentals are solid there's really not a lot of difference between 100-600yds as long as you know your drops and have a good range finder.

If it were me I'd go ahead and have steel pillars installed and a good bedding job done and make sure it's free floated.

What I'd suggest now is spending as much time as you can reading here. Go to the "The Basics Starting Out" subforum and read all the stickies at the top.

Next you need to decide just how much you are willign to spend on a scope and put the very best glass on it you can find.

You want at least a 50mm Objective and I'd suggest a minimum of 14x on the top end for magnification. More doesn't hurt but it isn't necessary. Myself ad others have successful kills to a thousand yards or beyond with 10-14 power scopes. You'll find a lot of guys here shooting the Nightforce 3-15's and doing just fine with them. My preference runs to the Leupolds and IOR Tacticals but there are lots of quality LR optics available today, it's just a matter of setting a budget.

I'd also suggest the Hornady Reloading manual. It's got a great introduction to ballistics in the first volume that will help you understand bullets, powders, and the ballistics of shooting not to mention great reloading data as well.

They also offer a free ballistics calculator on there website from which you can print drop/wind charts etc.

Don't expect to develop a mastery of long range shooting overnight. I takes a lot of work, a lot of reading, and a lot of asking questions of knowledgeable people.

One shortcut if you have the budget for it is to attend a good long range shooting school. You'll get a couple of lifetimes of knowledge dropped on you in a few days along with practical long range shooting instruction on the range. They aren't cheap but neither are rifles, bullets, brass, and powder!

You will also over time find this forum to be an incredibly valuable resource. Many of us have been at the LR game for decades and we learn from each other every day here.

Welcome.

 

[4xforfun]

The FIRST thing I would do is buy/build a 6-47L. a 243/6mm remchester, hell, a 6BR for that matter, and learn to load shoot that combo first. Something cheap and FUN to shoot/ load for that won't kick the snot out of you. Simpy wanting to shoot 1000-1200 yards is no where close to good enough. Simply having the correct gun platform is no where near good enough!! Or any combo of the two. You need practical shooting experiance......at distance. The big game you are after deserve it. And I PROMIS...GARANTEE....that you will have a BLAST doing it. It is more fun that the actual hunting. It will not seem like work the first time you bang that steel/bust that rock at X,XXX yards!!!! There are not enough on the page that will represent how you will feel!!! That is the FIRST thing that I would do.

Now as far as the platform/caliber to hunt with. Most here would agree that a little extra weight is a good thing. I am not a big fan of the Vangard. And for that matter, ANY factory rifle. Not at four digit distances at game. A semi-custom Rem LA or Clone in 300 WBY or 338 EDGE in a good solid stock would be a good starting point. Why rem? Because every gunsmith on the planet works on them and builds off of them. You can change/upgrade any component with aftermarket parts if needed, and they are strong and reliable.

Also, I would watch the classifieds here and over at Accurate shooter for used guns and gun parts like stocks, actions, bbls, ect.... I would absolutly trust the folks at BOTH websights to steer you in the right direction, and you will save some time and money.

And also, as stated in some of the above posts.....portable weather stations and balistic apps are a must for sucess. The kestral 3500/4500 and the shooter app for your smart phone are the two that come to mind.

As always, this is simply my .02.

Tod

 

[WyomingLawDog]

I appreciate all of your responses. I am going to take it slow this winter and get the reloading figured out, buy a .300 weatherby die set for my reloading press and other reloading equipment after I do some reading and how too videos. Once I have the reloading down, then I am going to have a trigger job first and start shooting with new optics and see where it takes me. If the gun does not preform well, I can always take the optics off and put it on a new rifle and buy a die set to reload the new rifle round, correct? So I am not really out much and maybe the 300 weatherby only turns out to be a 800 yard gun, don't know until I try and start shoot long distance. I need to join the local gun club that has a cannon range that goes out to 1,200 yards where I can set up my own targets and practice this coming spring into summer before hunting season next year. So thanks for all the responses, I am going to take it slow and see where the rifle takes me on long distance shooting