memtb
Well-Known Member
Me too. I love and use ignorant prejudice.
You "may" use it…..I "excel" at it! memtb
Me too. I love and use ignorant prejudice.
memtb ,
You made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
If the hunter is proficient there is zero difference between the 6.5 and 300, I've never seen my daughter shoot an elk twice after she Creedmored them, I've seen her put elk down for grown men and she's not kind to them about having to finish an elk for them.Yes, even big bull elk can be killed with small caliber rifles, but not reliably. I have seen a lady kill a bull with a .243, but it took 3 hits to bring him down. I've seen a guy kill a bull with a 6.5 prc, but again 3 shots to the chest before he went down.
I have a bunch of rifles, but I would reach for my .300 WM or 28 Nosler for an elk hunt. Maybe take my 7 mag as a backup/spare rifle, but not my 6.5 prc or .270 as I have better choices.
I bet the % of wounded/got away elk is higher for 6.5 Creedmore than .300 WM if the hunter is proficient.
Well we are on a long range page so I was thinking that is the direction of the conversation. My badA big "negatory" there partner! Let's use as an example a nice, fat, wide metplat 500 grain .458 moving at a very low fps (let's just say 1200 fps) …..it only has approximately 1600 ft/lbs energy. But that big, heavy, flat nosed bullet will very likely "full length" an elk…..breaking a lot of important stuff while it "rumbles" along it's journey! The elk will be much more impressed by several feet of damaged organs than with the 1600 ft/lbs energy! memtb
You silly boy, this is the Internet. No telling where it's going.Well we are on a long range page so I was thinking that is the direction of the conversation. My bad
Ooh I really like this idea of knock out value. My dad is getting ready for a spring brown bear hunt on AK peninsula next year and we've been having the discussion of energy vs bullet diameter. The .338 RUM/Lapua with a 300 gr Berger absolutely blows away the .375 Ruger and .375 H&H in energy, especially at distances of 300+yds. But Alaskan guides have always used and recommended the .375. I am obviously a novice, and we'd need an Alaskan to help us understand why the .375, but I'm guessing it comes down to penetration. A bear with a hole out each side is easier to bleed out and therefore, track. But even in that case, maybe a bonded or full copper bullet like the Barnes TSX in .338 would still outperform the .375? If anyone else has more thoughts on brown bear penetration, please share! I really like the insight everyone has shared on this thread!This is s discussion that has been going on for well over a century. I think John Taylor's Knock "Knick Out Value" concept which assumes a solid bullet still has relavance today.
(Bullet weight X Bullet Diameter X Velocity) / 7000 = Knock Out Value
He believed ithat a value of at least 60 was needed to knock out an elephant with a properly placed bullet to the head. I like to use this formula using the velocity "at the target". A value of "10" for deer sized game and "15" for elk sized game. While it doesn't account for bullet expansion I think it does account for sufficient penetration energy to reach and damage the vital organs and has served me well as a guideline. The formula gives credence to velocity, bullet weight, and diameter to effectively take game. IMO.
For example, 1000 yards is my max range for deer with my 6.5x284. (1850FPS X .264 X 142) / 7000= 9.9 Knock Out Value.
My 300WM load produces a value of 15 at 1000 yards. (1800FPS X .308 X .210) / 7000.
Foolish words there Mr keyboard ! Simple balistic facts overwhelm your comment.If the hunter is proficient there is zero difference between the 6.5 and 300, I've never seen my daughter shoot an elk twice after she Creedmored them, I've seen her put elk down for grown men and she's not kind to them about having to finish an elk for them.
The only advantage I've seen a magnum give is just adding distance to the shot possibility, for average elk hunting I've seen them be way more a liability due to people just not being able to handle them. Far more elk are wounded buy guys who can't handle a magnum rifle, by a wide margin!!!
If the hunter is proficient there is zero difference between the 6.5 and 300, I've never seen my daughter shoot an elk twice after she Creedmored them, I've seen her put elk down for grown men and she's not kind to them about having to finish an elk for them.
The only advantage I've seen a magnum give is just adding distance to the shot possibility, for average elk hunting I've seen them be way more a liability due to people just not being able to handle them. Far more elk are wounded buy guys who can't handle a magnum rifle, by a wide margin!!!
Yes, but what about at distance? That BC is way worse, and the resulting energy is lower than the .338.Quote from madair: But even in that case, maybe a bonded or full copper bullet like the Barnes TSX in .338 would still outperform the .375? If anyone else has more thoughts on brown bear penetration, please share! I really like the insight everyone has shared on this thread!
Not if you use a mono (Example 270 TTSX or 300 TSX) in the .375! memtb
Yes, but what about at distance? That BC is way worse, and the resulting energy is lower than the .338.