Energy or bullet diameter most important?

[cabelasken]

My vote is for proper bullet design. I've now seen 4 instances where an elk has been properly hit with a 7 RM, 300 Weatherby twice, and 300 WSM and the bullets did not hold together. All had plenty of energy at impact at the ranges attempted, but the store bought economy ones did not do their job. We were able to recover 3 of the 4 animals, but the 4th escaped with the herd. I've been a reloader for the past 45 years and have seen great advancements in bullets and powders over that time. I believe if you don't reload, at least select for your hunt one of the premium bullets that are known to perform well on game no matter what caliber you use.

 

[baldhunter]

I've shot game with .284,.308,.338 cal with bullets of the same construction in near Identical locations of the body.I could defiantly tell,as the diameter of the bullet increased,so did the size of the wound channel.

 

[Hugnot]

Here is another measure:

Taylor knock-out factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.22-.250 = (75 * 3250 * .224) / 7000 = 7.50

.375-.338 = (300 * 2550 * .375) / 7000 = 40.98

This assumes the 75 grain, .224 bullet does not disintegrate upon impact - good rodent bullet.

 

[FEENIX]

I think the most important thing is to understand the performance range of the specific bullet that you are using and the velocity range in which it performs as designed.

I'll probably get bombed for saying this, but energy doesn't kill directly. It kills indirectly by pushing the bullet through certain types of anatomical structures allowing the bullet to do the job that it was designed to do.

Example of how energy doesn't kill directly is in what happens when you shoot FMJ bullets through flesh. They just pencil through. Opposite example is a v-max bullet at 3800 fps. If you so much as hit a thick tree leave the bullet comes apart explosively.

Unless I misconstrued, no one is disputing KE alone kills, as eloquently noted by @Canadian Bushman

People love the simplicity of defining one variable as most important, but it is just not the case. Its a combination of many variables that need to be applied appropriately. If you are discriminating any individual characteristic you are denying yourself the opportunity of education.

And as I always say,

If the NUT behind the trigger has a poor bullet choice, they are responsible for their decision and its consequences.

 

[Magnum44270]

My vote is for proper bullet design. I've now seen 4 instances where an elk has been properly hit with a 7 RM, 300 Weatherby twice, and 300 WSM and the bullets did not hold together. All had plenty of energy at impact at the ranges attempted, but the store bought economy ones did not do their job. We were able to recover 3 of the 4 animals, but the 4th escaped with the herd. I've been a reloader for the past 45 years and have seen great advancements in bullets and powders over that time. I believe if you don't reload, at least select for your hunt one of the premium bullets that are known to perform well on game no matter what caliber you use.

Winner winner!

 

[BrentM]

Neither is the overall deciding factor for me but IF ONLY 2 CHOICES, I would consider energy over diameter.

My personal preference is bullet design, sectional density, and velocity at the range you are effective. If diameter is all that matters then I guess we all need 375's (commercially available) or 50's...... The argument has no real end.

 

[memtb]

I see very little discussion about momentum vs KE at impact. You can have a tennis ball and a baseball hit a person in the butt with the same KE. 10/10 the person is going to request to be hit with the tennis ball. The baseball has more mass and momentum.

A 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 might have similar KE at 500 yards, but the 178 grain ELD-X is going to have more momentum than the 143 grain ELD-X.

I have used a very similar scenario many times, only I don't go "small bore" in my example….. I go big-bore , I use a soccer ball vs bowling ball in my scenario! Even a Creedmore shooter should grasp the concept! memtb

 

[memtb]

Lot of complicated variables interact but at basic level energy is proportional to volume of wound. Cross sectional Area and velocity squared are proportional to diameter of wound / rate of energy transfer (i.e. drag ). So wider/faster bullets may make wider/shallower wounds than slower/narrower bullets with similar energies. What works best depends on what you are doing

Lou

It depends upon bullet construction….my wider, faster bullets will "full-length" an elk! memtb

 

[memtb]

...there's no substitute for .308 diameter holes in chest walls !

Except……bigger holes! memtb

 

[FEENIX]

Here is another measure:

Taylor knock-out factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.22-.250 = (75 * 3250 * .224) / 7000 = 7.50

.375-.338 = (300 * 2550 * .375) / 7000 = 40.98

This assumes the 75 grain, .224 bullet does not disintegrate upon impact - good rodent bullet.

Here's a link to a calculator, https://n4lcd.com/calc/

 

[memtb]

Neither is the overall deciding factor for me but IF ONLY 2 CHOICES, I would consider energy over diameter.

My personal preference is bullet design, sectional density, and velocity at the range you are effective. If diameter is all that matters then I guess we all need 375's (commercially available) or 50's...... The argument has no real end.

A big "negatory" there partner! Let's use as an example a nice, fat, wide metplat 500 grain .458 moving at a very low fps (let's just say 1200 fps) …..it only has approximately 1600 ft/lbs energy. But that big, heavy, flat nosed bullet will very likely "full length" an elk…..breaking a lot of important stuff while it "rumbles" along it's journey! The elk will be much more impressed by several feet of damaged organs than with the 1600 ft/lbs energy! memtb

 

[GeorgeB52]

A small caliber is not able to spit out heavy bullets.
You will never achieve the energy you need for big game.
No matter what placement or type of bullet.
If we agree energy is the major factor ,go big and heavy.

 

[Rich Coyle]

A small caliber is not able to spit out heavy bullets.
You will never achieve the energy you need for big game.
No matter what placement or type of bullet.
If we agree energy is the major factor ,go big and heavy.

We don't agree "energy is the major factor." My 90 grain bullet theoretcally produce 7,000 ft/lbs of energy. There's no way I would pick it over a .416 if hunting cape Buffalo or elephant.

 

[GeorgeB52]

We don't agree "energy is the major factor." My 90 grain bullet theoretcally produce 7,000 ft/lbs of energy. There's no way I would pick it over a .416 if hunting cape Buffalo or elephant.

How did you get 7000 ft/lbs energy???
Muzzle??
Distance??