Bertram and adg brass

[Timnterra]

I'm starting work on a couple 6.5 PRC projects and it looks like both Bertram and ADG are making brass for the PRC now. Do any of you guys have experience with these brass makers? I've never used brass from either manufacture. I am looking for brass that is consistent in size/ weight and will hold a primer well over several firings with high end loads.

 

[bigngreen]

ADG is better made brass, IMO.

 

[FURMAN]

The ADG is more consistent in weight. I tried ADG in 6.5 CM and 300Win and the primer pockets were the weakest I have encountered. Supposedly they have fixed that. Bertram brass is very tough but needs more sorting/prep. I will be trying both over the next few months in 30 Nolser and 6.5 PRC.

 

[can1010]

ADG has better consistency but Bertram will take high end loads much better
It all depends how much prep you are willing to do.

 

[Timnterra]

On the Bertram, How inconsistent are we talking? If I buy 500 can I get two sets of 200 that line up pretty well in weight?

 

[FURMAN]

On the Bertram, How inconsistent are we talking? If I buy 500 can I get two sets of 200 that line up pretty well in weight?

With 300WM 30 Nosler, and 6.5 PRC I am seeing es of 7-8 grains. Some of the manufacturers will say weight is not an accurate indication of capacity but in every instance I have measured both the ES is the same percentage wise. Example, if the weight has an es of 3% the capacity es will be 3%. I have not gotten around to measuring neck thickness.

I would say out of 500 you could get 200 within 2-3 grains which is pretty good for heavy cases.

 

[can1010]

Bertrams biggest problem is rim and neck thickness inconsistencies but there internal capacity is real good. I turn necks for about 75% cleanup no matter what brass it is and sort for case capacity not overall weight

 

[FURMAN]

Bertrams biggest problem is rim and neck thickness inconsistencies but there internal capacity is real good. I turn necks for about 75% cleanup no matter what brass it is and sort for case capacity not overall weight

I have found that weight in the three cartridges I mentioned to be very bad. For reference Nosler 300WM and 30 Nosler brass will be around 2-3 es. I will eventually test to see exactly how much that effects vertical at 1000 yards but I would assume it will have a negative effect.

I refuse to turn necks when brass like Nosler is good to go. I would rather spend extra money replacing the brass prematurely than turn. I have the equipment and have done it but brass prep already takes too much time. I am not going to add another step. Obviously we all have our tolerance.

While we are discussing this subject Hornady brass is horrible in both neck and weight consistency and it does not matter with the 6.5 CM or PRC. They are both super accurate even with the horrible brass.

 

[Timnterra]

I'm okay with neck turning since it only has to be done once. How do you sort by case capacity?

 

[yorke-1]

I haven't tried the ADG brass yet, but I have some 338 RUM cases on the way for a project that should be done soon. I've been using Betram brass in my 338/408 Improved for a couple years and I've had a lot of problems with variations in rim thickness. It's enough of an issue that I have to sort the cases because the Sako style extractor on my Lawton action won't snap over the thicker rims. The same cases work fine in the BAT CT action with a sliding plate extractor though, so maybe it's more of an issue with the Lawon's extractor than the rims on Bertram brass.

 

[FURMAN]

I'm okay with neck turning since it only has to be done once. How do you sort by case capacity?

Put a spent primer in the case weigh the empty case and tare it, add water until I get a perfect meniscus at the top of the neck and weigh. Like I said it always mirrors weighing the case.

 

[can1010]

if you measure the rim thickness and extractor groove dia. that is where a lot of the weight variance comes from but that has no bearing on capacity. the neck thickness will definitely effect your vertical at 1000 but I turn necks so I don't consider that a problem

 

[Rhovee]

I have the opposite experience of rfurman24. ADG is tougher and far better than Bertram on consistency. I necked up 28 Nosler to 30 cal and ran it against Nosler and ADG that I made from 300 rum. Bertram showed more pressure signs than any. Nosler primer pockets gave out first. I have shot ADG in 7 saum and 338 Edge often. My 338 edge brass runs 2820 with 300 grain Bergers and am on 7th firing with pockets still good.

 

[FURMAN]

if you measure the rim thickness and extractor groove dia. that is where a lot of the weight variance comes from but that has no bearing on capacity. the neck thickness will definitely effect your vertical at 1000 but I turn necks so I don't consider that a problem

You say that but I am not seeing it with the 6.5 PRC. Like I said it needs to be tested with the load I end up with in each rifle. I should clarify when I said I need to test I am referring to the 30 Nosler.