what long range cartridge would work best for a remington short action
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You are asking about a short action, and some of those 30's are gonna be too long. The 243 AI is OK. Many 1,000 yard guns are being produced on the 6mmBR, BRX, Dasher and other variations. Now if you are looking for a big game factory cartridge, stay with the .308.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I get a kick out of these posts. They seem to be popping up alot lately. What the BEST for this or that.
In all honesty, you are the best part of the rifle for long range hunting. There are 500 chamberings that would work and be fully capable of taking deer and coyotes at long range in a short action Rem 700.
Ballistically, a 260 Remington will nearly match the 300 WSM as far as ballistic performance and would have 1/3 the recoil.
Some have said many of the rounds recommended are to long for the Rem 700 short action. Again, bunk, its a 20 minute job to install a 3.000" Wyatts extended mag box and then you can use any of the WSM if you want to and even the 284 class chamberings.
The 6.5x47 is a decent chambering but its developing a reputation of having alot of vertical stringing at longer ranges because in my opinion, the case capacity is to large for small rifle primers. It CAN NOT be loaded anywhere near 6.5-284 performance levels unless the first is overloaded and the second is under loaded. Thats just a silly comment.
For what you want to hunt, you do not need alot of bullet weight so unless you want to reuse the factory barrel, I would never recommend a 30 cal for what your using the rifle for. 6.5mm and 7mm would offer better ballistics all around. Even if you dropped down to the 260 Rem or 7mm-08, you would gain ballistic performance, not give up much in barrel life either and have less recoil.
If you want to rev up the ballistic performance, Look at the 6.5-284 or even the old 284 Win which actually is a great short action chambering. Just have your reciever converted to use the 3" wyatts mag box.
If you want more then this, the 6.5mm WSM is an amazing long range chambering for your class of game. The 7mm WSM is also outstanding, again, you will want the 3" mag box.
In the end, no matter what you have, it is you that will determine if the rifle is effective at long range, that is if the rifle is up to the challange from the beginning.
One thing to consider however is that when you convert a standard receiver to use the WSM, its not as easy at it may sound. Some receivers need alot of tweaking to get them to feed well. Its often not just as easy as opening up the bolt face and your off. That is why you may be much better off with the 08 siblings of the 284 family of chamberings.
In all honesty, you are the best part of the rifle for long range hunting. There are 500 chamberings that would work and be fully capable of taking deer and coyotes at long range in a short action Rem 700.
Ballistically, a 260 Remington will nearly match the 300 WSM as far as ballistic performance and would have 1/3 the recoil.
Some have said many of the rounds recommended are to long for the Rem 700 short action. Again, bunk, its a 20 minute job to install a 3.000" Wyatts extended mag box and then you can use any of the WSM if you want to and even the 284 class chamberings.
The 6.5x47 is a decent chambering but its developing a reputation of having alot of vertical stringing at longer ranges because in my opinion, the case capacity is to large for small rifle primers. It CAN NOT be loaded anywhere near 6.5-284 performance levels unless the first is overloaded and the second is under loaded. Thats just a silly comment.
For what you want to hunt, you do not need alot of bullet weight so unless you want to reuse the factory barrel, I would never recommend a 30 cal for what your using the rifle for. 6.5mm and 7mm would offer better ballistics all around. Even if you dropped down to the 260 Rem or 7mm-08, you would gain ballistic performance, not give up much in barrel life either and have less recoil.
If you want to rev up the ballistic performance, Look at the 6.5-284 or even the old 284 Win which actually is a great short action chambering. Just have your reciever converted to use the 3" wyatts mag box.
If you want more then this, the 6.5mm WSM is an amazing long range chambering for your class of game. The 7mm WSM is also outstanding, again, you will want the 3" mag box.
In the end, no matter what you have, it is you that will determine if the rifle is effective at long range, that is if the rifle is up to the challange from the beginning.
One thing to consider however is that when you convert a standard receiver to use the WSM, its not as easy at it may sound. Some receivers need alot of tweaking to get them to feed well. Its often not just as easy as opening up the bolt face and your off. That is why you may be much better off with the 08 siblings of the 284 family of chamberings.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Listen to kirby!:d
All of the options above make sense, except I would hazard against building a 6.5-284 on a SA. I would put those on LAs only unless you want just a single shot. It will perform better on a LA.
For long range hunting, either the 300 WSM, 7WSM or 270 WSM, but you will need to change the bolt face.
For long range targets, and up to coyote maybe deer, 260 Rem is probably your best choice.
For long range target shooting, it is hard to beat the 6 Dasher.
The 6.5x47 Lapua I wouldn't put into comparison with the 6.5-284 in LR hunting capabilities. Great round, but different spectrum and capability.
For long range hunting, either the 300 WSM, 7WSM or 270 WSM, but you will need to change the bolt face.
For long range targets, and up to coyote maybe deer, 260 Rem is probably your best choice.
For long range target shooting, it is hard to beat the 6 Dasher.
The 6.5x47 Lapua I wouldn't put into comparison with the 6.5-284 in LR hunting capabilities. Great round, but different spectrum and capability.
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Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The 6.5-284 can easily be put into a short action with an extended max box. Yes the bullets have to be seated a bit deeper. If you take a top end loaded 6.5-284 with a 3.000" OAL and one with a 3.250" OAL, the difference in performance will be about 50-75 fps.......
And, the short throated 6.5-284 will still putperform anything except a WSM or RSAM class chambering in same caliber.
Throat length is often overblown as far as velocity performance you gain from it from increased case capacity. Yes its there but its marginal compared to what most would have you believe.
Its very similiar to the myths that many spout about increased FPS per inch of barrel length. Used to be many would say you will get 50 fps per inch of barrel length, that is simply false. Even the most extreme, low expansion ratio chamberings will only gain around 35 fps per inch of barrel length over 24" barrel length. Most conventional chamberings will get 10 to 15 fps at most, occasionally around 20 fps but thats MAX.
Simply put, just like the old V-8, cubic inches equals horsepower with all else being equal, same way in rifle chamberings. Case volume equals performance, pure and simple, no magical way to get around it other then running the pressures very high to make up for case capacity and that is never a good thing.
And, the short throated 6.5-284 will still putperform anything except a WSM or RSAM class chambering in same caliber.
Throat length is often overblown as far as velocity performance you gain from it from increased case capacity. Yes its there but its marginal compared to what most would have you believe.
Its very similiar to the myths that many spout about increased FPS per inch of barrel length. Used to be many would say you will get 50 fps per inch of barrel length, that is simply false. Even the most extreme, low expansion ratio chamberings will only gain around 35 fps per inch of barrel length over 24" barrel length. Most conventional chamberings will get 10 to 15 fps at most, occasionally around 20 fps but thats MAX.
Simply put, just like the old V-8, cubic inches equals horsepower with all else being equal, same way in rifle chamberings. Case volume equals performance, pure and simple, no magical way to get around it other then running the pressures very high to make up for case capacity and that is never a good thing.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
Most factory cases that become Ackley Improved's are not hard to form, for many years it has been said that the parent cartridge could be fired in an AI chamber without any problems. I forget the reason why, but it was once explained to me in detail by a gunsmith, and it made perfect sense. I just suffer from CRS sometimes
Some Ackleys are more difficult, because the shoulder is actually moved forward and then blown out to 40 degrees. My 6 Long Dasher is a perfect example of this, but it's not a standard AI by any means.
The guy that built it told me it would out perform the 243 AI. I don't know for sure, but I do know that I can easily get 3300 with 105's and H4350. It fits in a Ruger short action with plenty of room to spare. Probably very similar to the 6-250 AI that Tricky is talking about, and there are alot of good reports on that cartridge too.
260, 7-08, 6.5-284, 6.5X47 Lapua are also good choices IMO. Especially if you are interested in deer at 700 or 800 yds. The 6.5-284 probably holds the candle out of those 4.
In order to get the ballistics of a good 6 or 6.5, you've gotta go really heavy bullets in 30 cal. In fact, ballistically the 6 Long Dasher with 95's at 3300 has less drop and drift at 1000 yds then the 300 WSM with 180's at 3000 does. It doesn't have the energy or "knock down" power at 1000, but it's ballistically more friendly.
Lots of choices out there nowdays that are better than the 308 IMO.
here's why I said to go with the 6/250AI instead of the .243AI. When fire forming an improved case the over all length actually shrinks anywhere fron .030" to .060"; depending on the case design and how much of a void the brass has to fill. A typical .243AI shrinks anywhere from .03" to .045", and the neck is the part that looses out. The .243 neck is already too short for heavy bullets and very light bullets, and the T.P. ends up in the throat killing barrel life. But with the 40 degree shoulder, it helps by moving the T.P. back into the neck a little bit. You still can't overcome the too short of a neck syndome. Most guys I know that still shoot the .243AI use 6mm Remington brass instead of generic .243 brass to at least keep the proper neck length. My 6/250AI chamber is actually about 1.968" long, and I use .243 brass rather than 22-250 brass. My cases will shrink right at .040" on fire forming. This makes them come in at about 1.930" for a neck length of .26" (roughly). I'd much rather have a .290 neck length. My next 6mm round will be a 6BG or a 6BG+.100".
gary
I agree, but I would go with the 6mm Ackley over both. Then again, I chose to build mind on the LA for repeating and feeding the 105 Berger Hunting VLDs
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I was very excited when the 6mm Dasher came onto the scene and could not wait to get one build and get the magical numbers they have been reported to produce.
In the end, it topped out at around 2900 fps with a 107 gr SMK and has done so in many rifles. Some will rarely push 3000 fps but thats pretty hot on average.
By comparision, the unsexy 6mm-250 will drive a 107 gr SMK to 2950-3050 fps depending on barrel length, shoot into the 1/5 moa range depending on rifle and shooter and no fireforming needed.
The Dasher lost a bit of luster in my eyes after testing it. Still a great round but just realized what your getting and do not expect magic. IF that is the case you will be very happy with the Dasher if you like forming brass.
In the end, it topped out at around 2900 fps with a 107 gr SMK and has done so in many rifles. Some will rarely push 3000 fps but thats pretty hot on average.
By comparision, the unsexy 6mm-250 will drive a 107 gr SMK to 2950-3050 fps depending on barrel length, shoot into the 1/5 moa range depending on rifle and shooter and no fireforming needed.
The Dasher lost a bit of luster in my eyes after testing it. Still a great round but just realized what your getting and do not expect magic. IF that is the case you will be very happy with the Dasher if you like forming brass.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Any 6mm is pretty light for true long range deer hunting. The 6.5mm is a far better choice and offers much better barrel life with very little increase in velocity.
I guess it comes back to what Long Range means to a certain individual.
I guess it comes back to what Long Range means to a certain individual.
There is no magic to the Dasher in hunting purposes, but in LR bench comps, there definitely is a lot of magic. It is a totally different type of shooting though.
I agree. I use the 6mm AI for yotes and smaller at LR. It is not a LR deer gun. The 6.5 is much better suited.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
The difference is about nine grains of powder (or less) for about 125 fps less velocity. I could push the 117 Sierras even harder, but don't. 105AMX bullets at 3100 fps is what the barrel likes. The bullets are still seated into the shoulder a bit more than I would prefer, but nothing like your 115's are. Most every .243AI case ends up being .220" or less in the length (most are .21"). I finish out at .260", and trim to .25".
gary
All this is true. The simpler answer is that the 243 AI isn't as improved as the 6-250 Ai is during the fire forming. The 250 Savage case is just a better parent case to improve.
