Updated Factory Short Magnums/Ultramags

[Mike D Texas]

30 cal, 210 to 220 grain, short action, 20 inch barrel, 3000fps. I don't understand why it's so difficult. Hornadys bound to have some of that superduperformance powder back there somewhere that'll get it done

I'll let you know soon hopefully if it's doable.

300SAUM Improved. It's throated for 185 Juggernauts, but I'm also going to try 200.20x bullets. The 185 Juggs are seated at 2.950 and above the n/s junction. Hawkins hunter mags allow 2.980" so the 200.20x should still be able to be seated optimally.

 

[Batsin]

What is Sherman doing that Hornady or Winchester can't do? Is it a licensing thing.

It is lack of a perceived market and difficulty of production. Hornady engineers have gone on record saying they don't like shoulders sharper than 30°. They say their scrap goes up exponentially.
As for the market, they are keenly aware of the failure of the RCM cartridges. RCM cartridges were savaged by reviewers because they were slower than the WSM's. If you look at the reviews, every one came to that conclusion: velocity was king. The reviewers were also peeved that they could not match the factory performance when handloading. At the time, none of the articles appreciated better feeding, better performance from 20" barrels, and better average accuracy (from the now-standard "match style" chamber).

As far as I can tell, every cartridge developed after the 6.5 Creedmoor was optimized for long-range competition* and intended to exceed the long-range performance of existing SAAMI cartridges. A lot more ammo is sold for competition than for hunting and selling ammo is the primary reason for Hornady to develop a cartridge (with the exception of those developed under contract). The .30 cal short magnum requested by the OP would appeal to only a small group of buyers and would be considered by most hunters as having inferior performance to existing .30 cal magnums.

*The 6.5 Creedmoor was initially marketed as just a competition cartridge. It was about a year later that Hornady began to produce hunting ammo for it. The 2007 introduction videos only included match ammo and is still on YouTube. The hunting ammo was introduced in 2008 and its video is still available too, FWIW.

 

[pecker_wood]

Compact short action short barrel magnum with new long heavy pointy bullets is it makes it easier slipping in the small doors of the little shoot houses I hunt out of with so much cloths on I can barely walk. I like having a compact magnum rifle to drop them decisively at short range back in the timber most of the time and having a better chance if I need to turn around, crank it up to 27x and send one 600 meters across the oats once in a while.

Yal out west wanting to long range hunt with silencers I thought would drive them to build more affordable compact magnums that I could get and just spin on a thread protector. Browning is starting to put some cheaper ones out that they are calling supressor ready but most short barrel magnums/PRCs are $1500 to $2000+ Fierce and Christiansen that usually look like they painted up to go out saturday night in the big city.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Compact short action short barrel magnum with new long heavy pointy bullets is it makes it easier slipping in the small doors of the little shoot houses I hunt out of with so much cloths on I can barely walk. I like having a compact magnum rifle to drop them decisively at short range back in the timber most of the time and having a better chance if I need to turn around, crank it up to 27x and send one 600 meters across the oats once in a while.

Yal out west wanting to long range hunt with silencers I thought would drive them to build more affordable compact magnums that I could get and just spin on a thread protector. Browning is starting to put some cheaper ones out that they are calling supressor ready but most short barrel magnums/PRCs are $1500 to $2000+ Fierce and Christiansen that usually look like they painted up to go out saturday night in the big city.

Here's a budget rig. Take it to your local
Smith and have him cut it down to 20" and re-crown and thread for a brake.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1023494600

 

[Batsin]

I have not kept track of mass-produced rifles. How many 3" actions are out there these days. I suspect that the fact that both the 6.5 PRC and 6.8 Western used exactly the same max OAL ( 2.955") meant that there were some actions of that length back in 2018 or so. The Hornady guys did mention that it was uncommon, though. It is entertaining that they did not mention the Marketing Dept's claim that the 6.5 PRC fit in a short action, despite it stretching the truth quite a bit.
Thanks

 

[Batsin]

Yal out west wanting to long range hunt with silencers I thought would drive them to build more affordable compact magnums that I could get and just spin on a thread protector.

I suspect that SIG hopes that the 277 Fury will appeal to that market. An advantage of the 80,000 chamber pressure is that it makes more use out of short barrels. Published info puts it's 16"-barrel performance at traditional 270 Win velocities and 24"-barrel at 270 WSM velocities. That pretty much means that it will beat WSM performance out of shorter barrels. The main issue is that the head height is pretty much the same as those cartridges, so it can't deal with long-ogived bullets.

edited to add: there are already people reforming the Fury Hybrid case to 6.5 and 30 cal.

 

[Buckys]

That's because the 6.8W is destined to die. Nobody wants a .277 caliber "new" cartridge.

I respectfully disagree that no one wants a new 277 cartridge.

That being said, it may very well die young.

I continue to avoid all new things from Hornady. It's a shame because the 7prc is a good idea but I'm getting tired of their "you're either with me or you're my enemy" approach.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Seems like more case girth will be needed for the 210+ at 3000 @ 20" in a true SA.
At SAFE pressures.

 

[HuntnPack]

BTW, this is a Long Range hunting forum, how many of us do you think are hunting with a rifle running an 18" barrel??


Cheers.

Uh …. I am. I guess I'm not "one of us"

Cheers,
One of Them.

 

[shaughn]

26 inch .820 at the muzzle no brake , next barrel will be 26 inch .920 18x1 thread with aics brake.

Not sure what I would do with an 18 inch barrel...isn't that a breaker bar?

 

[Batsin]

I respectfully disagree that no one wants a new 277 cartridge.

The main exception MIGHT be the 277 Fury, since it is likely to be adopted to some extent by the US Military. Only time will tell. It is a bit of a "there's Good News AND Bad News" situation. The head height is virtually the same as for the popular 270 Win ( .81" vs .80"), so bullet supply will be good. Unfortunately, that limits the ogive length, at least in SAAMI-spec factory ammo. In a longer action, longer ogived bullets can be used with the stock chamber. I suspect that many will want a longer freebore with the longer action to allow loading bullets farther out and gain powder capacity.

When I ran the numbers, it turns out that bolt thrust is actually about the same as for a PRC and less than a WSM, so plenty of actions will work.

 

[JAYgs8163]

26 inch .820 at the muzzle no brake , next barrel will be 26 inch .920 18x1 thread with aics brake.

Not sure what I would do with an 18 inch barrel...isn't that a breaker bar?

They throw 150 Badlands BD2's at 2950 FPS out of a 18" 308 bolt gun. Works pretty slick and is a pleasure to carry and hunt with. That's what I "do with" mine!

 

[shaughn]

190, 208 and 220 are what I use for bullet weights and none will do less than 2800 fps and I don't consider my rifle a chore to carry.......

 

[Mike D Texas]

I respectfully disagree that no one wants a new 277 cartridge.

That being said, it may very well die young.

I continue to avoid all new things from Hornady. It's a shame because the 7prc is a good idea but I'm getting tired of their "you're either with me or you're my enemy" approach.

The market says different. The .277 caliber has been and continue to be stagnant; at least for new cartridges and/or rifles to support them.