Winchester Super Short Magnums?

[J E Custom]

Anybody out there been using one of the super short mags? I see Midway has Winchester or Hornady brass available for the 243. Seems like it'd be a fun little rifle to play with, and they can just about be had for a song. From what I can tell, it's got it's own little niche for people wanting more horsepower out of the standard AR-15 sized platform. If one were going to get a bolt gun, is Browning the way to go? I've read reports that the Winchester's experienced feeding issues more so than their buckmark counterparts.

This is just my opinion, based on building and owning many different rifles in many different cartridges.

The question about short mags is simple, In the right format and the right rifle they can be very good. Like any cartridge, there are many things that can make or break the cartridge. If it is placed in the wrong action they may not feed or function well, if placed in the wrong barrel contour and twist rate, they may not perform. If the ammo or re loads are not chosen base on the case capacity and optimal bullet weight and use, it may not perform very well. Often velocity is wanted/needed that the cartridge was not designed for and it can be troublesome if it is pushed beyond its design limites.

All of these issues are present in "All" cartridges when they are expected to go beyond there design. The short mags are no different
in that when they are placed in the correctly designed rifle, built for that round with all the correct choices of components, They can be extremely proficient and accurate. They do fit a niche but so do other cartridges fit in there niche.

Sometimes even the manufacture gets it wrong and builds a rifle with the wrong components and specifications so the cartridge gets a bad rap because of it. WE have seen it happen many times that The/A factory comes out with a new cartridge in the wrong rifle with the wrong specifications and it is a flop, not because of the cartridge but the timing(when it was released) and the rifle they released it in with the wrong specifications for the cartridge design.

One of the original short mags fell prey to this. the 6.5 Remington magnum is a real performer in the right rifle and Out performs all other 6.5s (Including the 264 Winchester)with the exception of the 26 Nosler. These are listed loads and may vary based on barrel length and load used in. but using listed data with SAAMI pressures, it does show the relationship of a 52 year old cartridge that is almost extinct, and the newest and latest 6.5s .

The short version of this is that there are very few if any "Bad cartridges" only bad rifles and ammo choices. and most of all, shooter ability.

J E CUSTOM

 

[tbrice23]

There was a time during the Obummer administration that I had to buy once fired brass from a reliable source... Once Fire Brass com.
This kept me in stock of Winchester 300wsm brass for a few years. Enabled me to form 358 Grant, 270wsm and 7wsm cases. Never did have to buy factory ammo. Seems Norma WSM brass is plentiful almost always from a few sources .

 

[Tidus56]

I wanted a 243 WSSM forever, back then all I knew was midwayusa. So if they didn't have it in stock I figured it couldn't be had. Then I got all fired up on the 6AI, but midwayusa didn't have the brass so it must not exist! I wonder how often people assume you cant get the brass because their favorite site may not have it? I know it was my issue a few years back. Now all I want are Sherman cartridges and the WSSM have faded from my consideration.

 

[tbrice23]

I had to use 7×57 Mauser (parent case of the 257 Roberts and 6mm Rem) brass for my 6AI because 6mm rem brass is extinct.
The Norma is great quality, run it through a 6mm Rem die, neck turn .001" and fireform.

 

[Tidus56]

I had to use 7×57 Mauser (parent case of the 257 Roberts and 6mm Rem) brass for my 6AI because 6mm rem brass is extinct.
The Norma is great quality, run it through a 6mm Rem die, neck turn .001" and fireform.

CALIBER=diameter of a bullet, internal measurement of a bore!
CARTRIDGE=casing containing a bullet, powder, and primer!
If everyone could learn this ^ it would save me from pulling out my hair! Thanks for the info on the 6AI, I wish I would have known this a year ago, next 6mm barrel I do will be 6AI.

 

[tbrice23]

Get Norma brand 7×57 Mauser brass I have 8 firings on brass at 3350 fps with 105 vlds and the primer pockets are still tight. I suppose they'll last for 10 or more HOT firings

 

[tbrice23]

Also get a Redding 6AI body die and use a 6mm Rem Lee Collet Neck Die for sizing. This combo makes the straightest loaded rounds( less than .001" run out) of any cartridge I load for.

 

[jjmp]

I voted not to bad for a handloader ,but its great for the factory shooter also!, it was Ahead of its time, very well thought out, but I was vested in other similar cartridges & i'm slow to change, but I came around and finally bought a used 270wsm, yes I know it about the WSSM'S ..... but its my story so... thks first encountered a 243 wssm up in Canada on a whitetail hunt in Manitoba a friend of a friends Uncles Son had one in a Browning plain Jane hunter, 1 shot one beauty of a 9 PIN layed on the ground, I held the rifle and case and thought Dat's cool ,but I already had a 223, 243, & 25/06 ,sooooo I stayed stubborn , Even thou i'm a Nut's Browning fan........Winchester to kind of....so time passes and I run into and ole friend and we always bs about our lov of shooting n rifles ,soooooo he tells me he looking for a winchester/browing in a 25wssm......says he's got the 223&243 wssm already! oh I says how do you like them?..... Love them was his quick answer,he's my senior and one of the BEST reloaders ive ever meet & had the pleasure of his Friendship .......so when he Talks I Listen wit both ears, so I asked him which brand you like best? again he said it don't matter they all shot fine. so time passes mor then a few yrs roll over the counter,and he's my only friend looking back that owns all three, so being the reloader I thinks I am I look up the factory ballistics of all 3 , got to thinking yeah I know it hurts sometimes lol, their very impressive no doubt about it! but then I says i'm invested and happy with what I got ! but truly cash poor ta Boot I mite add.... so that's my story & i'm sticking to it.......but I will say they all 3 are performers in spades for someone looking to try something new and Unique ....... yes some times brass doesn't keep up with the rifle or vis versa but Thank You WINCHESTER for all your Advanced thinking before I was born & during my life, and Hearing the People's crys for brass and Filling the pipeline for the Vested shooter's of the Great WSSM'S cartridges!!! OH and by the Way Thank you REMINGTON for battling Winchester and vis versa, cause Man its Enriched all the Riflemen of the World 30x FOLD!!! Gratitude also to all the other Great Firearms mfg's... here and ABBROAD , good topic thks !!!

 

[therifleman556]

So what's the skinny with the brass quality anyway? I read reports that say wssm brass is the toughest stuff around, and others that necks split after one or two firings. One user on another forum claimed to have run a wssm case through a FL die 20 times in an effort to split a neck with no luck.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

25 WSSM.....can't say I've found it being any better or worse than most others. The only exception is Hornady which I've found to be about the worst.

 

[tbrice23]

I have yet to wear out a piece of Win wsm brass...ever. One lot of 300 wore out the best part of two 300wsm barrels.

 

[jjmp]

As far as brass quality I'd say it was the best Winchester could make,but running at high pressures I'm sure stress any brass especially in the neck region , IMHO this is where annealing is so beneficial to the life of the brass. It just work hardens faster & naturally . In the right situation of loading shooting and not annealing the brass over n over it looses it elasticity faster and fails not lubing case necks makes the expander ball drag and score the inside of the necks over stretching it at the same time ,non properly lubed brass cases stress the brass also . New dies are tight cases must be clean n properly lubed .another example would be to just neck size that case over n over while still not annealing ,again work hardening it sooner. Sure you could lube a new case or shot case and run it in n of your die 20 times, the quality there . Jmho hope this helps .

 

[tbrice23]

That stuff is built like a small tank!
Even annealing dwell times are MUCH longer than conventional Winchester brass.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

There's still more spring back than pretty much any other case I've delt with. Only thing I've seen worse was some 308's that must have been through a well worn machine gun. Even after annealing I had to grind a shell holder back about .020" for sizing to get them to chamber for plinking loads.