Factory Rem 700- short chamber ?

[pineywoods]

Bought a used Rem 700 .270 from my brother a couple weeks ago. He might have shot a couple boxes of bullets in it the last 10 years (he bought new in 2006). I started working on my first handloads for the rifle & realized factory Norma brass was REAL tight in the chamber. Didn't need trimming so measured the headspace (shoulder datum) with a comparator & compared it to a case fired in the rifle...identical at 2.040.
Found some factory loads with 2.038 headspace...chambered no problem. Another factory load was 2.040 & it was tight. My FL SAAME body die won't even touch the shoulder on the factory Norma brass after running it down max, which I suppose it shouldn't.
I've never seen identical headspace from a round fired in a factory chamber- it always grows on the first firing. This is the first factory rifle that I've seen this difficult to chamber some factory rounds also. I'm relatively certain this is a poorly tooled chamber from Remington. My brother never knew the difference & he doesn't handload. Could polishing the chamber alleviate the problem ? Re-set headspace ? Re-ream ?....any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yeah, you might have to have the chamber re-reamed. Or you could always have it reamed to .270 AI... That way you fix the headspace issue, clean up the chamber walls, and gain some velocity and brass life all at the same time.

You can even use your current .270 Win brass. Only thing, you'll need some .270 AI dies... I recommend Redding. They're not cheap, but jumping to an AI cartridge over a standard .270 will be worth it (all mine have been). http://www.midwayusa.com/product/63...winchester-ackley-improved-40-degree-shoulder

 

[pineywoods]

Well here's a twist. I had 3 once fired brass (same headspace as factory) & ran them through the FL body die & got some sizing whereas the die wouldn't touch the factory Norma cases. According to my comparator, the headspace didn't change after sizing- however they chamber with NO difficulty whatsoever. I pulled the firing pin to get a better feel. I'm totally confused now...
The dimensions of the body are .001 smaller on the new brass compared to the sized once fired as one would expect- the only difference that I THINK I see (no way to accurately measure) is where the body meets the shoulder. It looks pushed back on the sized case (which fits great) but the datum line is the same. These 3 cases were tight before & after being fired in the rifle...sizing them corrected the problem. New brass I'm working with is too small for the die to size at all ????....but factory Norma brass should chamber in any SAAME spec rifle....right ?
Could damage from a cleaning rod affect chambering ? I know I'm grabbing straws !
Would a small base die work on my initial sizing ?

 

[AZShooter]

Do you have a gunsmith nearby? Have him use a go gauge to find out if the chamber is too short.
I would bet it is fine but close to minimal.

If you cover the body and shoulder of the suspect brass with a sharpie or layout fluid you can see where the brass is making contact with the chamber and die.

I am wondering how you are setting up your FL die. Is the die touching the shell holder? The die can be adjusted so you are camming the two together, which is about as far as you can go. I have seen chambers so tight that some metal had to be ground off the top of the shell holder to size the brass enough to fit. Perhaps this needs to be done to the new Norma brass.

 

[pineywoods]

Do you have a gunsmith nearby? Have him use a go gauge to find out if the chamber is too short.
I would bet it is fine but close to minimal.

If you cover the body and shoulder of the suspect brass with a sharpie or layout fluid you can see where the brass is making contact with the chamber and die.

I am wondering how you are setting up your FL die. Is the die touching the shell holder? The die can be adjusted so you are camming the two together, which is about as far as you can go. I have seen chambers so tight that some metal had to be ground off the top of the shell holder to size the brass enough to fit. Perhaps this needs to be done to the new Norma brass.

I tried the sharpie thing & couldn't see contact anywhere. My smith is 2 hours away but I plan to contact him.
I've got a Redding body die which will bump shoulders & FLS minus the neck. I know from measuring the necks aren't a problem. The once fired brass sized with no shoulder setback & chambered fine which I find puzzling. I'm curious why the Die won't even touch the Norma brass....I've adjusted from 1/4 turn past contact to bottomed out...nothing. Same thing with factory Hornady brass.

 

[AZShooter]

I have read and reread your second post and can't tell what brass you are talking about in the first paragraph.

''Well here's a twist. I had 3 once fired brass (same headspace as factory) & ran them through the FL body die & got some sizing whereas the die wouldn't touch the factory Norma cases. According to my comparator, the headspace didn't change after sizing- however they chamber with NO difficulty whatsoever (''they chamber'', which brass are you referring to????) I pulled the firing pin to get a better feel. I'm totally confused now...''

If you run the new Norma brass through the fl die will the brass fit the chamber better than unsized new Norma brass?

Can you close the bolt on the new Norma brass sized or unsized? Is the unsized or fl sized Norma brass tight fitting in the chamber or not?

As you say at the end of that paragraph.....I'm totally confused now......

 

[pineywoods]

Those 3 rounds were federal factory ammo.

The die won't do anything to factory Norma or Hornady brass...only those once fired federals. They are both difficult to chamber...again sizing has NO effect either way on factory brass. I'm guessing the dimensions of new brass is minimal & that's why there's no sizing going on.

 

[AZShooter]

Ok thanks for clarifying.

Can you cam the bolt shut on the Norma brass in your chamber? If so have you fired any then tried to size them?


It may be that the Norma brass is out of spec, heck anything is possible.

 

[pineywoods]

Both Norma & Hornady factory brass requires some hard bolt cam to chamber. I'm real hesitant to load & shoot either one. Something is wrong...short chamber, damaged chamber, rough chamber...etc. I've never not been able to easily chamber factory brass in a SAAMI chamber....much less 2 manufacturers.

 

[AZShooter]

If there are no marks on fired brass from some strange anomaly in the chamber, then I would fireform some of the new Norma and try sizing afterwards.

There is no danger with tight fitting ammo IF you are using a load that is midrange. Heck my 30 BR and 6 BR cases are a tight fit requiring some hard bolt closure because I only neck size for several firings.

These puzzlers are interesting. Keep us informed on what happens next.

 

[pineywoods]

I certainly will & thanks for your input...much appreciated

 

[pineywoods]

Any suggestions on the Redding body die issue- being unable to size new brass ? Would a small base die help this or should I just purchase a regular FLS die for new brass ? Do they have more shoulder bump capability ? The body die FLS....just doesn't touch the neck.

 

[450hunter]

If the chamber had any ruff/scuffed up places in it, the once fired brass that was shot in the rifle should show marks on the brass. I have a custom MGM barrel that I bought for my Encore that was leaving marks on the brass and after further looking/inspecting the chamber looked like it was cut with a peanut butter knife. The rounds would chamber fine but every mark I could see in the chamber would match marks on the brass. Not happy with MGM and will never buy another product from them but that's another story.

 

[can1010]

this is a good one. I have read this three times fired and sized brass chambers no problem but new norma wont chamber? have you checked neck thickness norma brass is thicker I have to change bushings or turn necks. do you have a concentricity gauge to check run out a body die wont fix that. your brass might be a banana