Solution for elk hunting delema - 338 Lapua?

[ToKeepAndBear]

I am going on my first Elk hunt this year in CO. I therefore will not comment on what caliber kills best. However, after hunting other game and taking care of gunshot victims in the OR, my relative experience is that it is all about shot placement. Shoot what you can shoot accurately and limit your yardage to your experience level, bullet energy, and bullet velocity needed to perform well.

I can speak with some authority on suppressors. I will second the TBAC (Thunder Beast Arms Corp) recommendation. I own their titanium 30p-1 for 30 cal up to 300 win mag use. I also hate the noise/muzzle blast of rifles. The noise suppression and recoil reduction of a suppressor is very impressive for both target shooting and hunting use (supersonic large rifle ammo now sounds like a .22LR report). When the bullet hits the animal it is a loud SLAP that I have not noticed when shooting unsuppressed. You can order a TBAC can from your local Class III dealer. You also need to ensure the suppressed hunting laws of the state in which you wish to hunt. It is becoming more common every year and for good reason, it protects your hearing and makes your rifle easier to shoot!

I have also shot the TBAC 338 model suppressor on a Barrett MRAD (Thanks to Barrett for sponsoring a side stage at the Mammoth Snipers Challenge!). The noise suppression was similar to my 30 cal model. The recoil was a slow push and not objectionable at all. The experience has got me considering a 338 LM suppressed rifle as well. As others have said, a 338 build will probably be heavy compared to what you are used to shooting.

Since you are an empty nester looking for something for you and your wife to do together, I would suggest you both start shooting practical long range (some listed as sniper) shooting competitions! Specifically, the 2 person team competitions in which both team members shoot and then spot for one another. These are great fun and will teach you a ton about shooting in all sorts of improvised positions and under pressure. Being a good spotter is even more difficult than being a good shooter and just as important if you want to stretch it out! I also find spotting just as rewarding as shooting. When you get your buddy on the target with the second shot, after a first round miss, it is pretty exciting. You will also figure out what your yardage limit is for the conditions and the stability of your shooting position. Also, you will learn what your individual limit is without a spotter to call corrections. This distance will be considerably closer than what you might shoot with a spotter. All of this WILL make you a much better and thoughtful hunter because you have an appreciation of your actual abilities in the field. It will also teach you to aim small because you are often shooting at 0.5-2 moa targets.

For competition use, I would recommend a short action rifle in 260 Rem/6.5 creedmore/6.5x47/etc caliber but a 308 is also a good choice if you do not reload (reloading is also something fun to do and rewarding if you now have the time). 338 calibers are not allowed at most comps. However, if you learn to dope the wind and shoot the short action calibers well, I anticipate the magnum will seem easy in comparison. From a ballistic stand point, the 338 LM will shoot flatter and drift less, especially at the high density altitude in which the elk live, if your cardiovascular shape is up to the task! This, however, does not mean you can buy the big magnum and overcome a lack of experience with bullet BC and MV. It still gets pushed around by the wind! It is not a laser. You will likely miss or maim if you do not have the long range experience from shooting a lot of rounds, even with the big boomer (or quiet pusher if suppressed ).

Good luck and have fun,
TKAB

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you want up-to 1500 yard caliber perfect for Elk, check into the 7mmSTW.

.338 LM is a nasty round, too. I'd like to also have one someday.

I know a guy who shoots Elk out west with a .257 Weatherby Mag at 600-800 yards. 1 shot, 1 kill.

 

[SRHeer]

That's some "sound" adivce there TKAB! ( :

I realize what you are saying - no amount of body language will help nail and elk once the trigger is pulled - its in the preperation - familuarization - confidence - and knowing ones limits wich really onely comes with practice!

I plan on reloading some day but for now want to start with a caliber that I can buy ammo for - with a suppressor I could shoot a 7WinMag which I can buy 168grVLD ammo for about $44 - the 6.5 Creedmoor is like $34 a box using 240gr ammo - would the 7WimMag have any advantage over the 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Remington for long distance hunting?

Thanks for your help!
Stephen

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

SRHeer,

The 7mm Remington Magnum is definitely superior to the 260/6.5 Creedmore for killing power at long range. My recommendation with the 6.5 short action class was for competition use. It has almost no recoil, is extremely easy to shoot well, good barrel life, and good ballistics. It is certainly capable of long range hunting of large game, but less so than the 7mm Rem Mag or 338 LM, especially for elk.

My main competition shooting partner shoots the 7mm Rem Mag and he shoots it very well. Not a bad choice at all if you want to use the same rifle for hunting and possible competition. We had to swap rifles for two stages at the Mammoth Sniper's Challenge and I fired twenty rounds through it on one stage at almost 800 yards. Just don't pick it up by the barrel after shooting that many rounds in a couple minutes! I think I heard my skin sizzle! He shoots the 168 Berger VLDS at around 3050fps if I remember right. Very impressive ballistics from the 7mm RM, but my 260 seems to hang with it for target use. Recoil is there but it is not bad. And that is without a brake or suppressor on his setup and with a lightweight Savage stock. With a suppressor (and his McMillan stock and new bottom metal that is on order) it will be real sweet shooter! I think you would like it and it's nice you can find the Berger 168 VLDs loaded commercially, it is a great bullet.

The 30 cal TBAC suppressor would work fine with the 7mm RM. If you think you might want the 338 some day, just get the 338 suppressor. It will work well with the 7mm RM for noise suppression. I notice no audible difference when shooting 260 or 308 through my 30 cal suppressor.

Good luck with your decision,
TKAB

 

[MudRunner2005]

That's some "sound" adivce there TKAB! ( :

I realize what you are saying - no amount of body language will help nail and elk once the trigger is pulled - its in the preperation - familuarization - confidence - and knowing ones limits wich really onely comes with practice!

I plan on reloading some day but for now want to start with a caliber that I can buy ammo for - with a suppressor I could shoot a 7WinMag which I can buy 168grVLD ammo for about $44 - the 6.5 Creedmoor is like $34 a box using 240gr ammo - would the 7WimMag have any advantage over the 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Remington for long distance hunting?

Thanks for your help!
Stephen

I would say the 7mmRemMag would have an advantage over the 260 & 6.5, based on bullet B.C. from a larger projectile, and more ammo choices. I am not very familiar with 6.5C ballistics, so I cannot give a fair comparison for that perspective. But from a purely B.C. standpoint, I'd go 7mm.

As for within 750 yards I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on Elk or smaller game, with my .257 Weatherby shooting my handloads loaded with 110gr Nosler Accubonds.

I have several 7mmRemMags and love the 7mm calibers. They are a very nice and flat shooting round, and very potent out to 1000 yards with precision handloads.

Once again, if you are interested in a large-capacity, long-range, belted-magnum caliber in the 7mm market, I would suggest the 7mmSTW. I have never been a RUM fan...Not sure why? I guess I just always thought it was overkill to be pushing such a small projectile with such a large case capacity, and looking at it from a logical standpoint, should have much larger projectiles to have that much powder, which is where the .338 LM and .338 Edge come in. A scaled-up cartridge for a larger sized projectile. They look normal, instead of looking like you loaded a broom handle into a 20mm case.

 

[MudRunner2005]

SRHeer,

The 7mm WinMag is definitely superior to the 260/6.5 Creedmore for killing power at long range. My recommendation with the 6.5 short action class was for competition use. It has almost no recoil, is extremely easy to shoot well, good barrel life, and good ballistics. It is certainly capable of long range hunting of large game, but less so than the 7mm WinMag or 338 LM, especially for elk.

My main competition shooting partner shoots the 7mm WinMag and he shoots it very well. Not a bad choice at all if you want to use the same rifle for hunting and possible competition. We had to swap rifles for two stages at the Mammoth Sniper's Challenge and I fired twenty rounds through it on one stage at almost 800 yards. Just don't pick it up by the barrel after shooting that many rounds in a couple minutes! I think I heard my skin sizzle! He shoots the 168 Berger VLDS at around 3050fps if I remember right. Very impressive ballistics from the 7mm WM, but my 260 seems to hang with it for target use. Recoil is there but it is not bad. And that is without a brake or suppressor on his setup and with a lightweight Savage stock. With a suppressor (and his McMillan stock and new bottom metal that is on order) it will be real sweet shooter! I think you would like it and it's nice you can find the Berger 168 VLDs loaded commercially, it is a great bullet.

The 30 cal TBAC suppressor would work fine with the 7mm WM. If you think you might want the 338 some day, just get the 338 suppressor. It will work well with the 7mm WM for noise suppression. I notice no audible difference when shooting 260 or 308 through my 30 cal suppressor.

Good luck with your decision,
TKAB

Not trying to correct you, but I think you mean 7mm REM Mag, not "Win Mag".

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Oops, thanks for the correction MudRunner! I did mean 7mm Rem Mag! I'll edit my post.

TKAB

 

[extreme]

42 elk in my book and most were killed with a 338/378 wby. Mag ..
The last few with one of my 338 lapua,s....they are the best elk
medicine ever made .even poor shots ,,which we all get usually because of improper wind holds ,,,work wonders.
This is years of experience from me ,,so i am sure one of them will work for you. They really shine out past 600/800 yards.
To each there own as you ,,should have already noticed on this
this site. Great bunch of guys with a wealth of knowledge
you can find nowwhere else.

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's all good, I just wanted to avoid confusion of someone else asking what a 7mm Win Mag was. LOL

 

[SRHeer]

7mm Rem Mag - ok thanks and I will check into that western round - I was thinking it might be overkill - is it a pretty efficient round? I will check the reloading manuals - and since I plan on hunting antelope also I think the 7mm calibers are maybe more suted for smaller game than say a 338 Lapua but maybe not necessarily - I am trying to look at everything -

 

[MudRunner2005]

7mm Rem Mag - ok thanks and I will check into that western round - I was thinking it might be overkill - is it a pretty efficient round? I will check the reloading manuals - and since I plan on hunting antelope also I think the 7mm calibers are maybe more suted for smaller game than say a 338 Lapua but maybe not necessarily - I am trying to look at everything -

Yes, 7mmSTW is a very efficient round. I reload for mine these days, and shoot 1 ragged hole groups at the range out of my factory barreled Remington Sendero SF. I shot a whitetail with it about 10 years ago within 100 yards using some Fedral Premium ammo factory loaded with 160gr Sierra GameKings, and it was ruthless on damage. Never took it deer hunting again b/c of how much meat it ruined. Did more research on the caliber later on down the road Federal started loading the 160gr Nosler Accubonds in a factory load. Shot those, and never looked back. Accubonds are the best hunting bullets I've ever found. I shoot Accubonds in everything I hunt with.

I know plenty of people who use that caliber to hunt in Africa, Canada, Alaska, Midwest, Texas, etc... It'll take anything on the continent.

Recoil is surprisingly not bad for how large of a caliber it is.

If you plan on hunting Elk or smaller game at greater than 300 yards, and don't want to ruin much meat.....7mmSTW with some 160gr Accubonds will be your meal ticket, IMO. gun)

Alot of folks dismiss the cartridge, Alot don't even know what it is or never heard of it. Some prefer huge recoil and lots of noise from the RUM's. But IMO it is one of hte best (and most often overlooked) long-range medium to large game calibers there is.

 

[ishootkittens]

Alot of folks dismiss the cartridge, Alot don't even know what it is or never heard of it. Some prefer huge recoil and lots of noise from the RUM's. But IMO it is one of hte best (and most often overlooked) long-range medium to large game calibers there is.

There is not a lot of difference in the recoil of a 7mm RUM and a 7STW but there is in velocity.

At 300 yards the 7mm RUM delivers 24% more energy than the 7 rem mag and 12% more than the 7stw.

With 140gr bullets the STW is very flat but the RUM can handle the bigger bullets (160-180) at higher velocities because of case capacity.

Probably not a lot of help but that's the difference.

The barrel life is going to be crap from either of them.. but if you are just using it for the hunting season then I dont see how you will shoot over 800-1000rds (in a short time period anyway).

If we keep in mind that you want a suppressor on it... I dont think recoil will be a factor to keep in mind anymore. I still vote for one of the .30 cals. Great heavier bullets to throw into elk at extended ranges. With all of the great scopes today, flat shooting cartridges arent as appealing because we can easily DOPE our scopes and make a clean shot without worrying about bullet drop/hold over.

For me the bottom line is.... When recoil isnt a factor (suppressor!), and a LARGE animal is going to be taken, and you dont have $1.50 to spend on every reloaded round (for a .338lm), then a .30 cal is the way to go. Leaves a bigger hole on game than the 7mm, and a smaller hole on your wallet (than the .338).

 

[MudRunner2005]

There is not a lot of difference in the recoil of a 7mm RUM and a 7STW but there is in velocity.

At 300 yards the 7mm RUM delivers 24% more energy than the 7 rem mag and 12% more than the 7stw.

With 140gr bullets the STW is very flat but the RUM can handle the bigger bullets (160-180) at higher velocities because of case capacity.

Probably not a lot of help but that's the difference.

The barrel life is going to be crap from either of them.. but if you are just using it for the hunting season then I dont see how you will shoot over 800-1000rds (in a short time period anyway).

If we keep in mind that you want a suppressor on it... I dont think recoil will be a factor to keep in mind anymore. I still vote for one of the .30 cals. Great heavier bullets to throw into elk at extended ranges. With all of the great scopes today, flat shooting cartridges arent as appealing because we can easily DOPE our scopes and make a clean shot without worrying about bullet drop/hold over.

For me the bottom line is.... When recoil isnt a factor (suppressor!), and a LARGE animal is going to be taken, and you dont have $1.50 to spend on every reloaded round (for a .338lm), then a .30 cal is the way to go. Leaves a bigger hole on game than the 7mm, and a smaller hole on your wallet (than the .338).

I have been shooting 160gr bullets out of my 7mmSTW for 10-11 years now (since I bought the gun new). It handles them VERY well. It actually prefers the 160's. The case capacity is not THAT much different in the STW and RUM.

If you think a $1.50 a round is bad, then you don't ever need to get into big-bores or .338's, .408's, .416, or .50BMG...

My factory loaded 7mmSTW rounds are $70-80 a box....That's $4.00 each. My reloads cost me about $0.89 each, even using high-quality powder and Nosler Accubonds. Granted, I've been saving up brass for 10-11 years, so I have about a lifetime's supply of it laying around, so that cost can be removed from my list, b/c it all came from factory loaded ammo I bought years ago.

 

[ishootkittens]

If you think a $1.50 a round is bad, then you don't ever need to get into big-bores or .338's, .408's, .416, or .50BMG...

Thank you. That is the point I am trying to make. If I had to come down to 2 calibers tho..it would be the 7 and the 30. And as far as 7mm vs. .300's, if they cost the same to reload...why not leave a bigger hole with more energy? More barrel life will come from the .30's.. and the rifle will be lighter (bigger bore, less metal in the barrel! Ha.. im just splitting hairs now!)

Good luck with ya choice!gun)