Oh god, not another caliber debate thread.

[MudRunner2005]

I still hate the fact that nosler shows there load data for the 28 nosler and a 168 with a 26 inch tube and lists the most efficient powders and runs it at 70000+ and does a jaggaloon test for the 168 in the rum with a 24 incher and leaves out the most efficient powders and the cartridge data is 180 fps off, kind of crooked if you ask me. I had a 28 throated long and a 7 rum throated the same for the 195 and I still have the rum, todays powders and bullets the big powder columns are getting their legs

It's called smart branding.............Or deception. Whichever way you want to look at it.

That's why I normally use the Berger manual, because they're not bias to brand, other than the brand of bullet, not the brand of the cartridge. Quick Load is also a great non-biased guide (not perfect, but neither is a manual, they're all just guidelines).

 

[adam32]

Yeah, and Roy's cartridge design technology was out of date by Korea...

In your opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

Same with your hate of Lazzeroni...it's getting old.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I have a hard time buying into that, I am sure there is some validity if we are set at one duration , but we are not, we have the options of different throat configs to reduce pressures and longer duration's to accelerate the bullets, if this were true there would be no Allen mags along with others. slow the pressure down but hit it longer to transfer the energy or build it to higher pressures

An internal combustion engine is nothing more than a giant air pump. It pumps in air (intake) mixed with fuel for continued combustion, and pumps air out (exhaust). The more efficiently you can pump air in and out of the motor (ported & polished heads, intake, and headers), the more efficiently your motor will run.

Think about it this way... You can put a 1371 Weiand blower on a big block 572 Chevy with a set of STOCK 502 heads... And it might run 11's in the 1/4 (just giving a general hypothetical). Then take the same car, and build a 427 LSX small block with a full port & polish job on the intake, heads, and headers, and put twin 62/62mm ball bearing turbos on it, running 18 lbs. of boost, and it's going to run 9's in the 1/4... It's overall weight is MUCH lighter, the rotating assembly is lighter...therefore faster, it's more efficient, and turns up quicker.

 

[MudRunner2005]

In your opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

Same with your hate of Lazzeroni...it's getting old.

I don't hate Lazzeroni's... I have talked with John several times on here. He's a really nice guy. I've never once said I didn't like them. I just said the brass was proprietary and very expensive. I was just stating a fact, no hate intended.

As for the Weatherby's Venturi shoulder, I am not really a fan. Owned a few Weatherbys (.257 and .300), but over time have come to prefer the square-shoulder Ackley designs.

 

[TwoMore]

It's called smart branding.............Or deception. Whichever way you want to look at it.

That's why I normally use the Berger manual, because they're not bias to brand, other than the brand of bullet, not the brand of the cartridge. Quick Load is also a great non-biased guide (not perfect, but neither is a manual, they're all just guidelines).

Nosler did the STW the same way when they listed that data

 

[MudRunner2005]

Nosler did the STW the same way when they listed that data

Yessir, they sure did. They really de-rated the STW and RUM in their manuals...Even in my Nosler 7 manual, which has been in print for several years before the Nosler cartridges were even invented. But check out the powder charges listed for the .300 Weatherby in the Nosler 7 manual... WAY up there compared to the STW. They have the STW only holding like 11 grains more powder than the 7mm RemMag in the manual. It's blatantly obvious they're sandbagging the STW big time.

Also compare the 7mmRM vs the 7mm Wby Mag with the 160 grain bullets and IMR 7828... 7RM (64.0 gr) and 7Wby (73.0 gr)... Are you joking? Either the 7RM was being sandbagged, or the 7Wby was being loaded REALLY hot.

7mm STW & 7RUM... IMR 7828 with 160 grain bullets... 7mm STW (75.0 gr) and 7RUM (85.0)... Once again, either they had really crappy brass and a really poor chamber, or the STW was being loaded low on purpose, RUM looks low, too.

 

[smithjasona1978]

What does out of date mean ?!
Have they stopped working? I better go shoot my .300 tomorrow and make sure it still works.
30-06 and 30-30 too. Those are really old.

 

[adam32]

What does out of date mean ?!
Have they stopped working? I better go shoot my .300 tomorrow and make sure it still works.
30-06 and 30-30 too. Those are really old.

Out of date compared to the new Nosler stuff...you know the stuff with minimum body taper and sharp shoulder angles...like the stuff P.O. Ackley was doing in the 50's...

 

[HARPERC]

Yeah, and Roy's cartridge design technology was out of date by Korea...

Korea ain't over yet!

 

[MudRunner2005]

What does out of date mean ?!
Have they stopped working? I better go shoot my .300 tomorrow and make sure it still works.
30-06 and 30-30 too. Those are really old.

You're not following, you're just trying to be smarta$$...But you're failing at it.

The Venturi (round) shoulder of the early 1940's was claimed to be more efficient than a standard squared-shoulder cartridge. But thanks to technology, we know that it's now been proven to be no more or less efficient than a low-taper wall cartridge with a sharp shoulder angle (40º-50º). Technology of the time thought round was better...That's what I mean by "out of date"...The technology in the design, not the guns themselves... Ackley was doing his thing in the late-40's after WWII, and was already improving some of Roy's cartridges with his own designs, merely a matter of years after Roy designed them.

A prime example of this is the .300 Ackley. It is basically a 40º square-shouldered lower-taper version of a .300 Weatherby. In fact, you use .300 Wby brass to form cases. You DO get a bit more capacity in the Ackley version, but even Ackley himself stated (back in the day) to use .300 Weatherby load data to start your load workup for the .300 Ackley...But it does produce more velocity thanks to the improved design that adds a few grains of powder capacity over the Weatherby version.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Korea ain't over yet!

Fair enough, but we haven't made K2 official yet...

 

[MudRunner2005]

Out of date compared to the new Nosler stuff...you know the stuff with minimum body taper and sharp shoulder angles...like the stuff P.O. Ackley was doing in the 50's...

Exactly... Beat me to it.

 

[smithjasona1978]

I like my wby shoulders. I can always tell what brass is mine on the ground.

 

[adam32]

At the end of the day...THEY ARE ALL GOOD...doesn't matter if they have a belt, no belt, rounded shoulders or sharp shoulders...they can ALL be made/built into very accurate hunting rifles that will kill animals humanely at reasonable distances.

Flip a coin, an animal won't know the difference