Lightweight Rifle Build

[RichCoyle]

I've seen this subject visited regularly for the last 50 years….physics has laid down the law…I'd rather carry my 8# reliable first shot tack driver on a "hard-to-get-tag" hunt.
Spend your time at the gym, jogging with a weighted pack and otherwise working out…forego the smokes and the alcohol…

In these discussions it's usually the 20+ extra pounds around the gut guy spending an extra 1K to shed 1# 9 ounces off a gun for a hunt that may only happen every 2-3 years….but to each his own.

How 'bout you give us this speal in twenty years.

Long about age sixty-five my eleven pound rifle got heavy. For the last fifteen years I used a Weatherby Mk V ultra light.

 

[slickyboyboo]

You can pick components for weight fairly easily.

Proof barrels chambered and threaded
22" Sendero is 45oz
22" Sendero Light is 42-43oz
24" Sendero is 47oz

Bartlein barrels
WTO did a 24" #13 in a 7 SAW that finished exactly 3 lbs (48oz). Bartlein has a weight chart on their site for carbons in 6.5mm caliber so a 7mm barrel will be a little lighter but less than 1 oz difference. Pick your length and knock off 0.4 lbs for your final weight.

Actions
Pierce SkeleTi is 15.9oz
Pure Precision Skltn Ti is 16.0oz
Pure Precision Skltn Stainless is 21.0oz
Defiance anTi is 20.6oz

Hawkins Hunter DBM is 5.4oz
Add 1.9-2.0oz for your trigger.

Stocks
Peak 44 Blacktooth is ~19oz
Manners UC-Plus is ~20-21oz
Add 1-2oz for bedding material

All that gets you in the 90-96oz or 5.6-6.0 lbs

Good luck with getting it to shoot like you want.

My 22" Proof finished is only 39.5 oz. That's 6.5/.264 cal.

 

[jrock]

The first questions I ask customers for UL rifles are,
- Brake, suppressor, or none
- Animals being hunted and expected ranges
- Price point

Based on the first two questions, I can narrow down my recommendations pretty quick. If you aren't running a brake, then short mags are a good option for terminal performance to recoil balance. If you are running a brake, almost any caliber can be made reasonably. Bigger TI breaks are great for UL rifles. Suppressors start to muddy the water considering their weight off the end of a small barrel, and overall weight distribution. The lightest components on the market cost. Costs can get to the point where one can spend over $200 to save less than an oz.

My assessment on "light weight rifles are harder to shoot" is 'Yes, they show the slightest shooter inputs'. Therefore, they are not as forgiving and with practice, they can be shot very accurately.

 

[COBrad]

How 'bout you give us this speal in twenty years.

Long about age sixty-five my eleven pound rifle got heavy. For the last fifteen years I used a Weatherby Mk V ultra light.

Mr Rich I'm with you. I packed an 11 pound rifle around on a 5 day high country deer hunt last fall, after packing my NULA on a bighorn hunt earlier in the fall. I have a new light weight rifle being built as my 11# 6.5 PRC is now a varmint gun that won't be packed around very much. I lost 30 lbs for the sheep hunt and still don't want a heavy rifle hanging off my shoulder. I am also 65 years old.

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

The first questions I ask customers for UL rifles are,
- Brake, suppressor, or none
- Animals being hunted and expected ranges
- Price point

Based on the first two questions, I can narrow down my recommendations pretty quick. If you aren't running a brake, then short mags are a good option for terminal performance to recoil balance. If you are running a brake, almost any caliber can be made reasonably. Bigger TI breaks are great for UL rifles. Suppressors start to muddy the water considering their weight off the end of a small barrel, and overall weight distribution. The lightest components on the market cost. Costs can get to the point where one can spend over $200 to save less than an oz.

My assessment on "light weight rifles are harder to shoot" is 'Yes, they show the slightest shooter inputs'. Therefore, they are not as forgiving and with practice, they can be shot very accurately.

Very fair points. In my opinion, if you are the guy who can regularly get to the range, shoot at distance, and in compromised positions with your light weight rig then more power to you and enjoy riding the lightning lol.

 

[tuscan]

About 5 years ago I went down this road, researching all the components and talking with custom builders. I ended up selecting a Mesa Precision rifle, now known as Pure Precision. Their ti action, self made carbon fiber stocks with a perfect geometry for recoil management and fit for my frame, a sendero light CF 22" barrel in 6.5 PRC all fit together just under 6 lb. A March scope, Hawkins rings, a TBAC Ultra 7 finish and a Spartan CF bipod finish it. It's the forerunner to what is now their Carbon Ascent model.

It is one of the most accurate rifles I own, and I now use it for everything - elk, deer, bear, ibex, sheep, caribou - it is easily the most comfortable rifle I own to carry on mountain stalks.

Would I shoot it in a PRS or Hunter match? No. But it goes on every mountain hunt now. I took it over either of my 7mm Rem Mags for my Thoroughfare elk hunt last year.

So while others extol the virtues of lugging a heavy gun, I enjoy miles in the mountains with my lightweight on my pack and have not missed or wounded an animal with that rifle. It's all about what is most comfortable to you.

 

[slickyboyboo]

You can pick components for weight fairly easily.

Proof barrels chambered and threaded
22" Sendero is 45oz
22" Sendero Light is 42-43oz
24" Sendero is 47oz

Bartlein barrels
WTO did a 24" #13 in a 7 SAW that finished exactly 3 lbs (48oz). Bartlein has a weight chart on their site for carbons in 6.5mm caliber so a 7mm barrel will be a little lighter but less than 1 oz difference. Pick your length and knock off 0.4 lbs for your final weight.

Actions
Pierce SkeleTi is 15.9oz
Pure Precision Skltn Ti is 16.0oz
Pure Precision Skltn Stainless is 21.0oz
Defiance anTi is 20.6oz

Hawkins Hunter DBM is 5.4oz
Add 1.9-2.0oz for your trigger.

Stocks
Peak 44 Blacktooth is ~19oz
Manners UC-Plus is ~20-21oz
Add 1-2oz for bedding material

All that gets you in the 90-96oz or 5.6-6.0 lbs

Good luck with getting it to shoot like you want.

My 22" Proof finished is only 39.5 oz

 

[TomHorn]

Savage 110 ultralight with proof carbon fiber barrel $1099 at Cabelas or bass pro. Can't build one for that. I have two. One in 6.5 PRC and one in 308 win. Both shoot under .5 moa with my loads. The 6.5 cost me $1400 + and then found the sale price for the 308. Only thing I added was a titanium break to both. They are 6lbs and under before scope. My son also has 2 of them in 6.5 PRC and 28 Nosler. He gets the same performance. He got his buck at 943 yards and his bother did the same with the 6.5 PRC at 952 yards. The bolts aren't real smooth (with use the bolts are getting better). The barrels are over $900 by themselves from Proof Research. Good luck!

 

[Mark37082]

Another UL action is hitting the market soon. Defiance Ti X is available for preorder. Coming in at 16-18 ozs with integrated rail.

 

[Playtimefun]

@Mark37082

You are an evil evil man for showing/listing that action. I don't need it... but I sure want it!!!!

 

[comfisherman]

2100+.... yeowza

 

[jrkotz]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

I agree with all of this except

"Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner."

I'm not 100% sure that velocity gained by having a longer barrel would increase recoil or muzzle jump. It's potentially the exact same powder charge, weight bullet etc. My thought is the added weight from the longer barrel would reduce perceived recoil. I'd be curious for someone who is more educated on physics to explain that one in depth.

 

[adk hunter]

Another UL action is hitting the market soon. Defiance Ti X is available for preorder. Coming in at 16-18 ozs with integrated rail.

$$$$$$$$$$$ Wow
I guess if you have the cash go for it but that is a hard NO for me!

 

[dogz]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

I gots to know but what do you hunt on a yearly basis and to what ranges have you taken game to on a consistent basis?