Introducing the 338 Texan

[just country]

evening, the workmanship is incredible. very commendable.
thank u for the answer. I knew why this was what the mod. was being made.

I very much like the improved version. Saves wear and tear on the shoulder of the cart. more powder, more boom, less maintenance

just countrygun)

 

[Swamplord]

The 338 Texan has already exceeded the velocity of cases with more powder capacity using less powder and no pressure signs.

J E CUSTOM

I've always considered doing a 338 Edge AI but keep reading that there isn't much improvement in the velocity dept .... Currently the best load in my 338 Edge (30" bbl) is a 300 gr Berger Elite Hunter at 2900 fps ..... definately a very warm load but safe in my rifle with WS2 coated bullets,

How much velocity increase are you seeing in comparison to a standard 338 Edge load ?
also is the reamer available for rent (or purchase ...PT&G, Manson ) ?

 

[fmajor]

That is a beautiful firearm. Workmanship looks amazing - congratulations!!!

It seems to me that with all the great 338's around, there yet remains a definite void.

The more or less "gold standard" long-range 338 bullet is either a 300gr Berger or SMK. With these bullets, most of the big 338's top out at approximately 2,800-2,900fps. The next 338 range are the huge CheyTac-based variants which seem to push those same bullets to approximately 3,400-3,500fps (or more?).

So, where are the 338 chamberings that can easily achieve 3,100-3,200fps (without being hugely down-loaded or at dangerous pressure levels)?

 

[Joel Russo]

The next 338 range are the huge CheyTac-based variants which seem to push those same bullets to approximately 3,400-3,500fps (or more?).

So, where are the 338 chamberings that can easily achieve 3,100-3,200fps (without being hugely down-loaded or at dangerous pressure levels)?

Although the .338-.408 variants can push the 300 gr bullets upwards to 3,400 fps, the accuracy node is around 3,200 fps. Some claim that theirs live at the top of the ladder, but my personal experience, backed with years of driving them, is that extreme accuracy always falls in between 3,180 and 3,250 fps.

 

[jonthomps]

Great looking rifle! Sounds like a beast of a round.

 

[Timber338]

That rifle really is a work of art. Very cool to see you guys working together to get it finished.

I can't wait to hear how it shoots!

Although the .338-.408 variants can push the 300 gr bullets upwards to 3,400 fps, the accuracy node is around 3,200 fps. Some claim that theirs live at the top of the ladder, but my personal experience, backed with years of driving them, is that extreme accuracy always falls in between 3,180 and 3,250 fps.

Also interesting to hear that most rifles in that huge case have an accuracy node around 3,200 when they can safely drive them much faster. I wonder what's going on there. Are those huge rounds just exceeding some stress point within the action? Any thoughts?

 

[Joel Russo]

Not exceeding any stress point in the action.. One of the limiting factors with these variants is the brass life. I don't care how long of a barrel you use, in order to launch the 300 gr bullets over 3,400 fps, you need more than 145 gr of powder. I have always had the best results with H50BMG. You're going to be throwing away cases after one to two firings at that rate.
Keeping the speeds around 3,200 fps gives you good brass life and unparralled accuracy.

 

[elkaholic]

Not exceeding any stress point in the action.. One of the limiting factors with these variants is the brass life. I don't care how long of a barrel you use, in order to launch the 300 gr bullets over 3,400 fps, you need more than 145 gr of powder. I have always had the best results with H50BMG. You're going to be throwing away cases after one to two firings at that rate.
Keeping the speeds around 3,200 fps gives you good brass life and unparralled accuracy.

I don't have any 338's so don't know much about the jackets, but I know in 30 on down, the bullet itself is usually designed more around that node.....Rich

 

[fmajor]

Although the .338-.408 variants can push the 300 gr bullets upwards to 3,400 fps, the accuracy node is around 3,200 fps. Some claim that theirs live at the top of the ladder, but my personal experience, backed with years of driving them, is that extreme accuracy always falls in between 3,180 and 3,250 fps.

This is fantastic information - thank you.

I used to load my 7mm Rem down a bit using 120gr pills for plinking and such so theoretically knew downloading was a possibility. However I never really connected the dots for the gargantuan 338s.

So if velocity is kept around 3,100-3,200 it would not be unreasonable to think 5 or more loadings per case would be attainable. Then once a reasonable cache of brass (maybe 100 cases?) is acquired for one of those 338/408 CT variants the hunter would be "set" for many years - no?

 

[Joel Russo]

The Bertram brass is much better than the Jamison fodder when you talk about life expectancy. I have achieved 7-10 re-loads out of it with reasonable loads.
100 pieces of brass will live out the acceptable accuracy level of your barrel.

 

[J E Custom]

I've always considered doing a 338 Edge AI but keep reading that there isn't much improvement in the velocity dept .... Currently the best load in my 338 Edge (30" bbl) is a 300 gr Berger Elite Hunter at 2900 fps ..... definately a very warm load but safe in my rifle with WS2 coated bullets,

How much velocity increase are you seeing in comparison to a standard 338 Edge load ?
also is the reamer available for rent (or purchase ...PT&G, Manson ) ?

Sorry, I just saw this and will try to answer as best I can at this early date. The 338 Edge is a great round and can do what most people want with standard loadings. But like "ALL" Cartridges it has it's limits.

With the current brass situation, I try not to push the brass to hard for longer life. So case capacity is the easy way to gain velocity without excessive pressures that destroy brass and exceed bullet designs.

The fire forming loads for the 338 Texan used 250 grain bullets in front of 106 grains of RE33 And obtained velocities comparable to high pressure loads of other 338s. I am sure that Jason will post his findings when he is through testing and I surely will also.

Like Joel and Elkaholic, I have found that the bullets become the limiting factor in velocity and sometimes a solid bullet is used to get past the design limitations if used for targets or steel.

Dies and reamers are available to everyone (I did not want them to be proprietary) Manson has the reamer dimensions and Hornady has the die dimensions.

Jaysons idea about the 7mm Texan is a possibility as long as there is a practical advantage to such a large over bored cartridge. with the current powders this may well be a Good way to increase
velocity without damaging the bullet from excessive pressure at ignition.

My philosophy has always been to reach higher velocity with lower pressures to save actions and components by increasing powder capacity for slower burning powders, not pressure.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Doublezranch]

I have finally spent sometime at the range and was able to compile some data. I have preliminary results for 2 powder/bullet combos. The first being the 300 otm with N570. All data was based on a 63 to 65k psi as max. I could certainly load it much harder with the stiffness of the Mark V action, but there was really not need to. Jerry and I are after barrel and brass life, hence the max pressures.

At the range, shooting a 100 yards the 300 otm shined. With a 102 grains of N570 the velocity was very close to 3100 fps with no pressure signs and a .25 cc group. As I stretched her to 200, the target looked like a shotgun hit it. I checked the usual suspects, action screws, bedding, loose scope. None of the above. Baffled I called Jerry and we thought maybe, just maybe the Texan doesn't like the 300 otm. Hoping that wasn't the reality, I loaded up some 280 Barnes LRX bullets and I put a clover together at 200 with the same 102 grains of N570. At the same time I loaded 3 test loads of Reloader 33. They were 104.5, 105.5, and 106.5 respectively. 104.5 and 105.5 were underachievers with a velocity of mid 2900's and 106.5 being the most accurate of them all with the 280 LRX with a top velocity of 3000ish. 106 is very compressed. All charges are loaded with a drop tube.

I really think the 300 SMK will be a hero for the Texan. The SD's with the N570 are under 5. I have a feeling that the magical potion for the Texan will be the SMK and N570. The Texan seems to burn all of the powder you can jam into the case. It loves velocity and shows very little signs of pressure. I look forward to heading to the range this week with the 300 SMK and see how it stacks up. I have no doubt it will show velocities very close to 3100 with a psi of 65 to 66k.......and no pressure signs.

 

[J E Custom]

I have finally spent sometime at the range and was able to compile some data. I have preliminary results for 2 powder/bullet combos. The first being the 300 otm with N570. All data was based on a 63 to 65k psi as max. I could certainly load it much harder with the stiffness of the Mark V action, but there was really not need to. Jerry and I are after barrel and brass life, hence the max pressures.

At the range, shooting a 100 yards the 300 otm shined. With a 102 grains of N570 the velocity was very close to 3100 fps with no pressure signs and a .25 cc group. As I stretched her to 200, the target looked like a shotgun hit it. I checked the usual suspects, action screws, bedding, loose scope. None of the above. Baffled I called Jerry and we thought maybe, just maybe the Texan doesn't like the 300 otm. Hoping that wasn't the reality, I loaded up some 280 Barnes LRX bullets and I put a clover together at 200 with the same 102 grains of N570. At the same time I loaded 3 test loads of Reloader 33. They were 104.5, 105.5, and 106.5 respectively. 104.5 and 105.5 were underachievers with a velocity of mid 2900's and 106.5 being the most accurate of them all with the 280 LRX with a top velocity of 3000ish. 106 is very compressed. All charges are loaded with a drop tube.

I really think the 300 SMK will be a hero for the Texan. The SD's with the N570 are under 5. I have a feeling that the magical potion for the Texan will be the SMK and N570. The Texan seems to burn all of the powder you can jam into the case. It loves velocity and shows very little signs of pressure. I look forward to heading to the range this week with the 300 SMK and see how it stacks up. I have no doubt it will show velocities very close to 3100 with a psi of 65 to 66k.......and no pressure signs.

Thanks for your input Jayson.

I will start testing my 338 Texan soon. (The weather has been running close to 100o every day
and I just don't like sweating all over my rifles to work up loads). the original concept was to come up with a cartridge that would push a 300 grain bullet 3000+ without any signs of pressure and targeted 3000 to 3100 ft/sec with pressures around 62,000 to 65,000 psi max for better brass life
and a cartridge that could use a magnum bolt face and work in a 700 Remington or clone without
special action requirements or mag lengths/boxes.

With Jayson,s testing and my preliminary testing, it looks like it will meet or exceed my goals
with the right powders and most bullets. (The chamber specifications are not bullet specific).

When more testing is complete, I will post the specifications and pictures of my 338 Texan and my findings for powder and bullets.

More to come from me and hopefully Jayson.

J E CUSTOM

 

[mountainman56]

I'm going to have to have one of these. No way around it that I can see.