I will not be getting 'the vaccine'...

[can1010]

The way these vaccines work is by inducing cells to produce the "Spike" protein sequence from COVID 19. Your body naturally recognizes these as pathogen associated molecular patterns and makes antibodies against them. There are a couple cell pathways through which it does this. It then destroys the facbricated Spike protein sequence and the remnants of the mRNA sequence. Your immune system then maintains memory of this in B/plasma cells. Then when confronted by the same or similar type Spike protein in the natural environment these plasma cells immediately make antibody and destroy the virion. The same technology is being used to attempt to create vaccines to kill cancer cells.

I am no doctor but that is the way it was explained to me by my doctors, she tries to keep things simple for my simple mind and as for cancer treatments go check post #33. I am thankful that you can explain it better and I hope that it can help others make the best decision for themselves away from the politics and internet BS.
thanks again for the better explanation

 

[Chase723]

Defiantly not this

"Personally, I LOVE FREEDOM and I believe in private enterprise and peer reviewed science, far more than I trust Uncle Sam. I don't want to give the government any other excuse whatsoever to infringe on our personal sovereignty and so if that means that I have to get a vaccine every year then so be it. What's the excuse for continued lockdowns etc when you are immune? I'd rather have my livelihood and freedom. Vaccination is the only real hope for that. Cut the head off the snake and eradicate it. If you think that .gov is going to let you roam free without getting it in the near future you're fooling yourself."

I didn't ask what it wasn't. I asked what it is.

 

[ButterBean]

I didn't ask what it wasn't. I asked what it is.

If that don't explain it all your doing is wasting your time and mine

 

[Pdvdh]

Pfizer is actually showing that it prevents transmission right now and I would bet that they will absolutely advertise that their vaccine reduces transmission as soon as they can demonstrate it objectively.

If what you state is true, then doesn't it imply, to at least some extent, that this treatment is so new and different from others used in the past, that not even Pfizer knows what all it does?
I'm no doctor, but if this shot is similar to prior treatments used since vaccines first became common in use, then I'd think Pfizer and Moderna might already have a good idea. Knowledge based on prior, proven track records with very similar treatments.

And if the treatment is that new and novel, my waiting for a more time-tested and documented track record of use doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[Chase723]

If that don't explain it all your doing is wasting your time and mine

Perhaps it was probably an oversight on my part of the audience on here. I already have to get vaccinations every year for my job. 100% guaranteed that it will be added to the list. So for me, it's another part of the annual credentialing process. For others, I can see how that's probably abnormal.

 

[Hand Skills]

I thought that was so. So getting the vaccine is only of benefit to me, and not all of my fellow citizens? It's for me and me alone? Then maybe the government has no excuse for imposing mandatory injections, or "else". Whatever the "else" is, that they might have in mind.

I worked for a State regulatory agency (the government) for 34yrs. I always enjoyed saying "Trust me, I work for the Government, and I'm here to help" amongst my co-workers. Always good for some giggles. Never dared say it outside the office, other than amongst 'friends'. No need to pick a fight...

This is debatable. I think labs are working really hard to show that the vaccine reduces transmission. We are starting to hear a lot about 'viral loading'... We might hear 'take the vaccine, it will prevent your body from procreating the virus'.

So yes, it may be effective at preventing our bodies from making more of the virus... But how does that relate to transmission? Contact tracing has indicated significant asymptomatic transmission... So, for me it's a bit of a leap.

Maybe this mRNA treatment WILL turn our bodies into COVID terminators. It is possible. We don't know, because it's not proven.

I feel like my point of view often gets 'straw-personed' as anti-vaxer. It's not.

Simply, these injections don't fit the definition 'vaccines' as we know them. This, along with public health measures that are not supported by evidence based medicine, gives me pause.

Our governments suspended 'due process' under the guise of a 'pandemic', which after a year of study, doesn't appear to be a pandemic at all.

If people want to be part of the experiment, that is their choice. I like to hope for the best.

I also prepare for the worst. What if the vaccine results in uncontrolled immune response to new, different strains of the virus for example. This is a real concern. Not to mention, long term side effects.

I encourage everyone to review the vaccine trials. See for yourself how they claim 95% efficacy. Pretty wild!

Thank you @Chase723 for your contributions

 

[Chase723]

If what you state is true, then doesn't it imply, to at least some extent, that this treatment is so new and different from others used in the past, that not even Pfizer knows what all it does?
I'm no doctor, but if this shot is similar to prior treatments used since vaccines first became common in use, then I'd think Pfizer and Moderna might already have a good idea. Knowledge based on prior, proven track records with very similar treatments.

And if the treatment is that new and novel, my waiting for a more time-tested and documented track record of use doesn't seem unreasonable.

Logistically, at some point, you have to transition from animals to humans. This technology has already been tested in both. When they tested the initial polio vaccine they gave it to 1.8 million kids. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is based on the same techniques used for other more common vaccines, modern technology has just made it wayyyyy faster to achieve the same thing.

The reason they didn't report on transmission was almost certainly because that wasn't the aim of the study. They wanted to document that it caused people to create antibodies specific to COVID 19, provided protection from infection with the virus, and decreased disease severity, which is easily quantifiable. Showing that someone can no longer contract or transmit a virus requires you to have a vaccinated population that you then expose to the virus and then introduce them to a group of known people who have no immunity, and you have to have a control group that isn't immune and is also exposed to the virus. In order to perform that type of study you have to get special permission from the FDA because it confers potential lethal risk to a participant. At the time they started these trials, they thought that COVID 19 had a 12% mortality rate.

As far as it being reasonable to wait, personally I think that is totally reasonable. I have a little more faith in the data (as evidenced by me being an early accepter of the vaccine) and I hope others come to the same conclusion. But, to each his own. The last thing I want to do is give Dems/Libs the notion that somehow they "rescued" us from COVID 19.

 

[5.56×250]

I feel very negative about all of this and that's not my nature . My hang ups about this revolve around the deceptions about case counts and manipulated test procedures . Add to that, the scarey parallels to history and government take overs . It is just too many dishonest and deceptive actions on the part of the people we SHOULD be able to trust.
Example...asymptomatic people and misused PCR tests . My logic tells me asymptomatic people are nothing more than misdiagnosed victims . Then we have contact tracing. Who holds those that do the contact tracing accountable for truth ? They obviously use contact tracing to give validity to asymptomatic people passing the virus to others . Its easy for me to see both contact tracing and asymptomatics as another "PCR" scandal . The CDC and WHO have lied and skewed numbers outright , so how can we have faith in anything they tell us ?

 

[Hand Skills]

Here is, perhaps a more accessible ray of hope.



Fast forward to 11:45 if you are short on time.

 

[Blue Ridge Rifleman]

Thanks for the good discussion, gentlemen. This can be a heated topic, and I really appreciate the honest stories and experiences that have been shared here. I feel fortunate to say I have only lost an uncle to COVID thus far.

I am not a denier, just a thoughtful individual trying to make sense things. Everyone I know has been affected, directly or indirectly. It's very interesting to hear the different perspectives and truly amazing that intelligent people can look at our situation and draw drastically different conclusions.

Viruses are tiny. This makes them hard to study because we cannot see them - even with an electron microscope - I understand the estimated size of the COVID-19 virus to be ~250nm. That's smaller than the wavelength of ultraviolet light - basically 1/4 of a micron.

Due to this complication Covid-19 has not yet been isolated in a lab. This is problematic when it comes to performing controlled, scientific tests.

My understanding is that we are dealing with an invisible enemy. We can't really see how it's interacting with our bodies, but we see how are bodies are reacting to IT. Reactions vary, but often what gets individuals in trouble is an inflammatory response (often in the respiratory system).

A lot of people compare COVID to the flu. Sources vary, but findings consistently indicate that COVID-19 is more serious than the flu. How much? It's hard to say. To me it looks like COVID has possibly 3x the mortality rate of influenza (it is strange that influenza took the year off). Either way - influenza and covid are both well below 1 death per 100 cases. Less than 1%.

According to the CDC, the fatality rate attributed to those infected with the Spanish Flu was one in ten. 10%! If that were the case presently, I might have a different outlook on these rushed vaccines.

Flu vaccines have been around for a long time. How is the COVID-19 vaccination any different? Well it is the FIRST mRNA VACCINE of its kind! This is my point. Scientists have been working on mRNA vaccines for nearly two decades (perhaps longer). Past trials have been plagued with undesirable side effects, which indicates it is not an easy thing to get right.

At the moment, I'm with @JMW67

In preliminary trials, Ivermectin has been shown effective not only as

-a prophylactic (preventing people from getting sick),

- for treatment COVID symptoms (reducing inflammatory response).

- It has even shown effective treating POST-COVID syndrome (I'm not sure if that's actually a recognized syndrome, but there are people who get messed up by the virus, test positive, then in time the virus leaves, they test negative but these people can't work and long term disability doesn't know what to do with them)

They best part, Ivermectin has been used by BILLIONS of people. It's cheap and proven to be harmless (well, not to parasites, but harmless to humans).

Anyhow, for those on the fence, it's another option to look into.

I hoped to be more active in this thread, hopefully things slow down here for me this week.

SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) has most certainly been isolated in the lab and is available to researchers. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/grows-virus-cell-culture.html

 

[tcmikey]

I think we can guarantee they will claim they rescued us from Covid. And the previous administration will claim they should receive the accolades.

 

[Chase723]

Also, outside of vaccines, like @Hand Skills and couple others have previously mentioned on here, the data on Ivermectin is extremely promising.

 

[Pdvdh]

Well I'd opt in and get it if I felt it was as safe as polio, smallpox, flu, shingles, and pneumonia shots. Same with tetanus and whooping cough. I've had all of those and I can still shoot pretty straight.
I think they know it works in the sense we're less apt to die in the short term, if we contract the virus.
What I don't know with confidence now is what else it might do to my immune system. I'm pretty happy with mine as it is right now.

Whether you believe in God or evolution or both, it's hard to deny the human immune system has proven remarkably adept and proficient over time. How long have we been getting along as a species prior to having mRNA treatment? On the other hand, I also know the more people on the planet, the more potential for new disease outbreaks, and the faster they will spread across the globe. Hard to isolate these days with instant jet travel to all reaches of the planet.

All in all, I'm gonna hang loose for a while on this one, and continue with my hobbies. Drinking and hanging out with my Parrot.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

The latest study out of Israel, where over 600,000 people have received both shots, is that less then .5% tested positive for Covid at some point after inoculation. Of those that did, their viral load was "reduced 4 fold". Thus, indicating that those vaccinated were much less likely to transmit the virus to others.

BTW - they also indicated that 97% of the deaths were among those who had not been vaccinated yet.