How do we deal with some of the realities of our sport?

[MontanaRifleman]

Let's keep ethics out of this and focus on the thread title.

An issue came up in another thread that posted a video in which the shooter missed the first shot at long range. The spotter called for a sighter shot to make adjustments and the adjustment was made which resulted in a hit. The animal, a moose, did not go down until hit once more after some time had expired.

Another member commented that posting this video on the web would draw a lot of criticism from those opposed to long range hunting. Others said there was nothing wrong with posting the video as it is the real world and proper steps were taken to correct the situation.

I have mixed emotions on the subject. I have been in other forums where if you even mention long range hunting the self appointed ethics police will fillet you alive. The arguments made by those who favored posting the video are valid... but... they are seen through our eyes who have knowledge and experience of the sport.

Those who are against it are usually both ignorant of the sport and fundamentally against the idea of it. In my experience they do not listen to facts, experience and reason. They choose to remain ignorant.

I will say that in another forum a few years back when i was one of the first ones talking about long range hunting I got a lot of heat and very little support. As time progressed more guys were talking about shooting and hunting at longer ranges. The "antis" still raise a fuss but maybe not as intensely and this past year a number of those members began construction of a 1000 yd range (In Alaska). So recently there is much more acceptance and support of long range shooting and hunting on that site. That said if you were to go post the video in question that site, it would create a huge ruckus.

So, is it best to be selective in what we post or be totally open?

Please keep it civil guys... remember we are all on the same side.

 

[FEENIX]

Re: How do we deal with some of the reralities of our sport?

The reality is captured in the video; as real as they get.

The reality is that WE all miss shots, that's human err. Heck, even multi-million dollar high tech equipment misses. I worked on avionics guidance and control systems and weapons control systems in fighter and attack planes in the USAF. lightbulb

The reality is; the follow-up shot is just as important as the first.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[WildRose]

One of the best ways to handle reality is to point it out.

The reality of it is, hunters miss shots at all ranges from a few feet to as far as the eye can see.

The spotter shot was a great idea vs slinging lead wildly. Much better to pick up the needed correction from a puff of snow than a hit on a let or animal that's had it's jaw blown off.

The other reality we have to deal with is that large game taken at any range often takes more than one shot.

It doesn't matter if the range is 20yds or 2000 both will be out of the range of some shooters due to the shooter's skills and equipment.

Reasonable people will accept reality if it's pointed out.

 

[Broz]

One of the best ways to handle reality is to point it out.

The reality of it is, hunters miss shots at all ranges from a few feet to as far as the eye can see.

The spotter shot was a great idea vs slinging lead wildly. Much better to pick up the needed correction from a puff of snow than a hit on a let or animal that's had it's jaw blown off.

The other reality we have to deal with is that large game taken at any range often takes more than one shot.

It doesn't matter if the range is 20yds or 2000 both will be out of the range of some shooters due to the shooter's skills and equipment.

Reasonable people will accept reality if it's pointed out.

Great post WR. I agree! We have nothing to be ashamed of or hide. Real world education is the way to acceptance. We that are true long range hunters know this. Many of us long range hunters grew up hunting close range and know either can produce a less than desirable situation. Some that don't agree are simply not hunters at all, uneducated on the subject, or are just one of those that wait behind the key board to take a cheap shot. There are too many that really offer very little educational data to this forum, yet are right there waiting to attack or bitch. In reality they talk more than they hunt or shoot.

Jeff

 

[WildRose]

Great post WR. I agree! We have nothing to be ashamed of or hide. Real world education is the way to acceptance. We that are true long range hunters know this. Many of us long range hunters grew up hunting close range and know either can produce a less than desirable situation. Some that don't agree are simply not hunters at all, uneducated on the subject, or are just one of those that wait behind the key board to take a cheap shot. There are too many that really offer very little educational data to this forum, yet are right there waiting to attack or bitch. In reality they talk more than they hunt or shoot.

Jeff

Yep. My history as a rifleman began shooting prairie dogs with an open sight .22lr. I learned a lot and my range increased as my rifle collection grew.

I've made my mistakes too, we all have, and sharing our experiences will hopefully help others avoid the same mistakes.

 

[sp6x6]

I believe for the sport since this is open forum, there shouldbe some selective editing. I had mixed feelings. The forum has like 70,000 so that is alot of opinoins, and it is LR so it should be more open here. But I have seen postings where people think 400 is long.There are many different abilities on this site so what is long for one isnt for another. I raised my boy as many on forum know as a hunter.So I understand shot, I have dialed scope while son on target many times.And hunting is not perfect.I had my son on a nice bear, which he is crazy about and he missed the well set up shot, before I could say boo, he jumps over and shoots off knee as bear crosses chute.I would not show this and was filming.He knows he shouldnt taken shot, but wounds bear and finds out what its like to finish job in a alder patch. Thats hunting, and not all kids listen. He is currently in MPschool after graduating Marine meritoriously,squad leader,and expert marksman.The sport has changed tremendously with the newer sportsman shows.Maybe someone can recall another film,think it was No land for timid?In AK,there is footage near end where the author says he had thoughts about not showing sceen, due to graphic nature,think this was 60's-70's?But wanted to show the reality.Hunter shoots a large polar bear at close range w/think a 375 H&H.The bear goes thru ice and gone...Then climbs back out and If I remeber takes over 1/2 dozen shots,some knock him down some dont,waters flying off him,too date some most awesome footage I have ever seen.The reality of a tough bear

 

[bigngreen]

One of the best ways to handle reality is to point it out.

The reality of it is, hunters miss shots at all ranges from a few feet to as far as the eye can see.

The spotter shot was a great idea vs slinging lead wildly. Much better to pick up the needed correction from a puff of snow than a hit on a let or animal that's had it's jaw blown off.

The other reality we have to deal with is that large game taken at any range often takes more than one shot.

It doesn't matter if the range is 20yds or 2000 both will be out of the range of some shooters due to the shooter's skills and equipment.

Reasonable people will accept reality if it's pointed out.

Could not agree more!!

 

[HuntFarther]

I agree with just posting the footage how it is. I feel if things are cut and edited besides shorten up for time reasons, puts a bullseye on you. So I think it is better to just show the truth.

Here is my question what does anyone think would have happened if he said we stuck two in a moose gave the yardage and just left it at that. Do most think they would doubt the guy because of this or not?

 

[bigngreen]

I think a good argument could be made for showing the whole video or none of the video.
Heavy editing creates false expectations and does not show the reality of real hunting and I don't think it does us an service as a community.

In only showing sanitized and edited first shot one shot kills we effectively set the bar for everyone who watches it that the hunting that is shown in an edited video is reality, that bar is set so high that anytime it is not reached it opens the door for antis IMO.

 

[500mag_guy]

I agree with just posting the footage how it is. I feel if things are cut and edited besides shorten up for time reasons, puts a bullseye on you. So I think it is better to just show the truth.

Here is my question what does anyone think would have happened if he said we stuck two in a moose gave the yardage and just left it at that. Do most think they would doubt the guy because of this or not?

I agree don't cut footage due to being worried about what some may say about a miss. It happens and it has happened to most if not all of us that practice long range hunting.

I recently posted a thread about my elk season. Yes I could have very easily taken my shot at 1184 yards, I had everything in my favor. A solid rest front and rear and I felt very confident with the shot! I felt I would have a very good chance at spotting my shot but for the simple fact that I was running solo and had a possibility I wouldn't see the shot I made the decision to cut a few more yards off of the shot.

Yes he could have very easily said two shots and down and you know what, I'd probably believed it. As far as I'm concerned there is no reason to extend the truth. Give it how it is. You have nothing to lie about here.

 

[WildRose]

I agree don't cut footage due to being worried about what some may say about a miss. It happens and it has happened to most if not all of us that practice long range hunting.

I recently posted a thread about my elk season. Yes I could have very easily taken my shot at 1184 yards, I had everything in my favor. A solid rest front and rear and I felt very confident with the shot! I felt I would have a very good chance at spotting my shot but for the simple fact that I was running solo and had a possibility I wouldn't see the shot I made the decision to cut a few more yards off of the shot.

Yes he could have very easily said two shots and down and you know what, I'd probably believed it. As far as I'm concerned there is no reason to extend the truth. Give it how it is. You have nothing to lie about here.

Well said. Anyone who finds this site see's what it's about, "Long Range Hunting".

The main purpose of this site is to promote just that and filling people with false expectations will lead them into situations that make them quickly lose any taste for the sport and possibly hunting in general.

If we stick to the truth, neither scrubbed nor embellished we do them, Len, and the sport a service and do do anything less does them all a disservice.

One problem I have with some of the hunting shows on TV is that they do scrub, wash, clean, edit heavily and embellish for the sake of promoting sponsors products and those shows honestly leave a bad taste in my mouth especially those that basically tell complete novices that if they spend enough money on the products being promoted shooting live game is like a fool proof video game where you cannot miss and every shot is a clean kill. I often wonder just how many stomachs are turned when the well meaning but gullible viewers find out what reality is and how may of them will then lose the taste forever for the sport we are trying to grow.

 

[FEENIX]

Sometimes WE (the LRH community) are our worst enemy (no pun intended).

As long as human factors are involved, it will always complicate things.

 

[dgarrett]

How in the world could any anti have a problem with that moose hunt? They were all out protesting for the reintroduction of wolves... The Hunt on this Video was 1000 times more ethical then any wolf kill. Hiding and worrying about what a these wildlife illiterate antis think is playing right into their hands... We should never ever be driven underground in the way we hunt or manage wildlife. I feel it was appropriate to post the video just like it was... What message are we sending to the hunter (a young man out on his first moose hunt) that he should hide his hunt and it is something to be ashamed of? If hunters stood together and had nothing to do all day but grease up there lice infected Ragee hair we wouldn't have to be worried about posting a video to the net. But most have to work to support these culls so they have time to protest, learn to howl like wolves on the courthouse steps, and make cardboard signs trying wipe out our way of life. I say KUDOS to Bayem for a great video and a bigger KUDOS to his son for a great hunt. jmo Dave Garrett

 

[500mag_guy]

One problem I have with some of the hunting shows on TV is that they do scrub, wash, clean, edit heavily and embellish for the sake of promoting sponsors products and those shows honestly leave a bad taste in my mouth especially those that basically tell complete novices that if they spend enough money on the products being promoted shooting live game is like a fool proof video game where you cannot miss and every shot is a clean kill. I often wonder just how many stomachs are turned when the well meaning but gullible viewers find out what reality is and how may of them will then lose the taste forever for the sport we are trying to grow.

Great point, People alway ask about if I/we watch these long range shows on television. The answer is no, I really try to avoid them. Not knowing how many shots are edited out before they get that one perfect shot. Yes with lots of practice year round in all conditions will give you a huge edge but there is always a factor you can't control that is the main cause of our misses, wind. It's not consistent ever. Ya you can adjust for what it is doing where your at but that isn't what it's doing along the way between you and your target.Ya it's cool to see when they do make a good shot but it's just sad that Most all hunting shows never have a miss aired on there shows. Giving a false hope to everyone who is thinking about starting to hunt.

Hell we've all missed animals at all distances near and far and I guarantee we will all miss again but what separates us is the ones big enough to admit they miss.