Gun build time frame

[Switchback2]

I have a question I'd like to ask here since it involves a ELR build I was doing.
What would be the accepted time frame to allow a GS to keep your money without returning it or providing the agreed gun?
I ordered a Custom build back in Oct and the day I ordered it the GS said he talk to Stiller and actions were 2 months out Max. We both agreed the Manners stock would be the longest wait time at 5-7 months and I was quoted the barreled action would be waiting on stock and once it showed it would be another week or 2 to Fit / Bed and finish barreled action into stock.
Well Manners had him the stock in 6 months and I am going on 10 months and he still don't have the action and we have both called Stiller and they say they have actions but Not the bolts as PTG are building the bolts and can't give any of us a time frame.
And all the dealings I have had with PTG has been I/ We may not even see the bolt for 6-8 months.

So I asked for my money back to either go another route or buy a few of the ELR guns I been seeing posted , but the Smith will not return my money in full.
He claims he can use some of the parts but it would be a little harder for him to sell the .338 barrel and Manners T4A built for a Stiller Tac 408 .

But I know he has people waiting for his builds and he could finish the build once Stiller ever gets him a complete action. But he don't want to return the $1612 the Stock and Barrel cost. Only the other $2200

So I am stuck not wanting to be too big of a *** Hole because he is a well respected GS in the ELR world but I am also out $3812 total he has of mine and I don't have the money or Gun we agreed on that would be ready at Max a month after stock showed.
Thanks

 

[Rick Richard]

I have a question I'd like to ask here since it involves a ELR build I was doing.
What would be the accepted time frame to allow a GS to keep your money without returning it or providing the agreed gun?
I ordered a Custom build back in Oct and the day I ordered it the GS said he talk to Stiller and actions were 2 months out Max. We both agreed the Manners stock would be the longest wait time at 5-7 months and I was quoted the barreled action would be waiting on stock and once it showed it would be another week or 2 to Fit / Bed and finish barreled action into stock.
Well Manners had him the stock in 6 months and I am going on 10 months and he still don't have the action and we have both called Stiller and they say they have actions but Not the bolts as PTG are building the bolts and can't give any of us a time frame.
And all the dealings I have had with PTG has been I/ We may not even see the bolt for 6-8 months.

So I asked for my money back to either go another route or buy a few of the ELR guns I been seeing posted , but the Smith will not return my money in full.
He claims he can use some of the parts but it would be a little harder for him to sell the .338 barrel and Manners T4A built for a Stiller Tac 408 .

But I know he has people waiting for his builds and he could finish the build once Stiller ever gets him a complete action. But he don't want to return the $1612 the Stock and Barrel cost. Only the other $2200

So I am stuck not wanting to be too big of a --- Hole because he is a well respected GS in the ELR world but I am also out $3812 total he has of mine and I don't have the money or Gun we agreed on that would be ready at Max a month after stock showed.
Thanks

Unless you had written language in the form of a contract or invoice stating delivery date or time frame for build,then you are SOL if the builder does not want to work with you and return the initial money. This is something to keep in mind for the future. I have waited as long as 15 months for a build, but I don't blame everything on the builder. Good luck!

 

[Switchback2]

Unless you had written language in the form of a contract or invoice stating delivery date or time frame for build,then you are SOL if the builder does not want to work with you and return the initial money. This is something to keep in mind for the future. I have waited as long as 15 months for a build, but I don't blame everything on the builder. Good luck!

I do have written agreement it would be within a month after stock arrives . And that was delivered April 1st

 

[MOOSE39465]

Just simple web search I found the Tac408 in stock ready to ship. Not sure if it's the exact one you are waiting on

 

[yorke-1]

Go ahead and be jerk. There's no excuse for a GS deliberately miss representing or out right lying about lead times.

I encountered similar issues with a big name smith who said a job was done and requested payment in full. When I didn't receive the finished rifle after almost 2 weeks I followed up and was told the completed gun would go out the next day. The following day I was told that my chamber reamer broke while the barrel was being chambered, despite having been told the project was completed and paid in full weeks earlier.

On the other side of this, I waited 11 months for Benchmark Barrels to finish a project because they told me at the start that the lead time would likely be more than 12 months.

 

[ducky]

I went through something similar with my first rifle build. I paid too much up front as I relied on the GS to order some parts for me, and waited too long for the finished product. Anyway long story short, I order all my pieces when they arrive at my house I drop them of with the GS when he says he's ready. Every rifle I've had built since that first one has taken less than a month to get back into my hands.

 

[MOOSE39465]

There's only one gunsmith I will send my parts in for a build because I know that he is promoted and sticks to his word. I don't think he is a sponsee here so I can't say his name, but there is other good smiths if you can wade through the bad ones to find a good one.

 

[carl1775]

I just waited 10 months for a custom stock to be made and fitted. Not an entire rifle, just a stock. It turned out amazing, so it was well worth the wait. All of this to say these firearms, are hand made pieces of art. I didn't have an agreed upon time table on my project, but I feel in this industry some people have an unrealistic expectation of their finished product. Do I really want to use a smith that is able to jump right onto my project? Or, do I want to wait for my turn, in order for a skilled craftsperson to work on my project? That said, if a time table is given for completion, I feel there should be some remediation to the agreement. A discount, free upgrade in work, or whatever...Any way, it just reminds me of the old saying of, "You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar." Don't really know why we're catching flies, but.... old people (greatest generation and all) gotta love'em!!!!!

 

[carl1775]

double post...

 

[window licker]

If you're planning on building a custom rifle, gather the parts yourself, then take the stuff or ship to your Smith, once you confirm a completion date. This does a few things.
1. SMITH, is the only person holding up your build when it runs late.
2. In the event of death, arrest, or bankruptcy you will have paperwork clearly stating what is yours and what is not.
3. This should also thwart the deposit, for the only thing that is owed is labor and or shipping, which should not be due until the project is complete.

 

[J E Custom]

Actual time to build a custom rifle if the smith has everything in hands should be no more than 30 days if he scheduled each build in order. But because of other builds in his schedule it could be how many builds in front of you that could effect your start date.

If all parts were ordered, they should come in in 3 to 4 months and the 30 days are added to that. the smith should know what the delivery date is on each item and base his schedule off that. If his vendors don't meet their schedule, he should work on that or change vendors because it impacts his schedule to.

In my experience, some vendors will tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. I always demanded the "Real time" to receive the component and held him to it. it is better to tell the customer the actual time up front, than have to explain why his build is late.

I would first ask him what progress he has made and what is his revised schedule is and then decide what you want to do. Any components he purchased for you should come back to you and he should not refund anything but the cash. In my opinion, any time spent ordering parts should be on him because he did't expedite his schedule.

He may have some reasonable reasons for the delay so try to explain that you would rather have the rifle than the money. if he is unreasonable with that approach, time to move on and find another GS.

Custom builds are not always easy/simple ,but the Smith has/should stay on top of things to meet his schedule.

J E CUSTOM

 

[KyCarl]

I would take the parts and cash and tell him to go sing! If I am paying for them he's not keeping them! I went through this very same thing and I'm not taking it again!
There are too many good choices out there. I bought a MPA 338 BA all put together
factory rifle and it shoots better than most of us can.
https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa-338ba-bolt-action-rifle/

 

[rogerstv]

You have a contract that by your indication the gunsmith has breached. I would call one more time and give him one opportunity before taking him to small claims court. If your contract assessment is correct, the smith has no legal leg to stand upon. He should be liable for your legal fees too. May want to consult an attorney.

If it were me and your contractual assessment is 100% factual, I would not hesitate to offer up litigation in one more phone call. Be prepared to file within a week if all goes south.

 

[misterc01]

With a contract, remind of it. and then if nothing, head down to small claims court.