Getting Closer to Make the Shot?

[MMERSS]

There have been some interesting and heated discussions previously over the theme from a comment about not being able to "get closer" to make a shot. A few seasons ago I was able to assist a huntress with making a one shot kill on a nice elk over 1100 yards. Today I still make the comment, "there was no getting closer." But what is the root meaning with such a comment as a hunter should most certainly be able to get closer with virtually every hunt?

Shot probability should be the determining factor with range as a condition of input with this factor. Decreasing range, or "getting closer" as an input does not necessarily increase or maintain same shot percentage. Take the elk hunt example above. A decision to try to close the distance could have been made. However, estimates with shot percentage would have decreased not increased as most would suggest. Current shooting position provided an estimated ½ MOA precision potential. Moving to an alternate "closer" position more than likely would have increased precision potential many fold. A solid shooting position from the ground was not likely requiring a kneeling or standing unsupported position thereby potentially decreasing shot probability, not increasing it. Furthermore, on two previous deer hunts range was purposely increased by a few hundred yards to increase shot percentage. An alternate position further away from the animal was selected due to high crosswind uncertainty encountered at the current position. The alternate position provided a higher estimated shot percentage due to the wind now blowing directly in the face of the hunter rather than full value as with the previous position.

"There was no getting closer, because doing such would more than likely not increase chance for a clean and quick kill," is a defendable statement. The next time the debate comes up about getting closer, is the decision not to do so because one is already inside a maximum personal effective range or is it something else? If already inside a maximum effective range, a position change merely to "get closer" as some would suggest is a decision best left with the hunter.

 

[HARPERC]

Pretty well said. Shots at close, to very close range, add a number of issues that most don't consider.

 

[pyroducksx3]

Unfortunately the people that understand this or even get the concept of what you're saying aren't the ones that cause heartache. It seems the biggest naysayers are the ones that think longrange hunting is bad and refuse to take on a locigal discussion about it. Very well put though. I have gotten into arguments on another forum because I didn't move closer and my buddy ended up missing the shot even though he was inside a well practiced range.

 

[WildRose]

Not much to argue about here unless someone just wants to argue.

No one but you can determine when and where your best likelihood for a successful one shot kill can be made unless you have someone accompanying you on the hunt.

There is so much more to a successful shot besides the range as you point out in the OP and all of those factors must be considered in the equation.

Personally I will take a straight on head or tail wind shot at greater range over a full value angled wind shot at closer range all day any day and twice on Sundays especially over varied terrain because wind is always the hardest variable to nail down in such a situation.

The right call is the one that carries with it the highest percentage of success period.

 

[toddc]

I quit rifle hunting for 10 years because it was too easy. I purely bowhunted and was super successful. I limited every year stalking and rarely from a tree. The reason I quit the rifle was it was just too easy. So I find the whole issue to be hilarious. People who say its unsporting and that you need to get within 300 yds. Uhhh getting within 300 is tuff? Try 20. And I am a lot deadlier at 1000 than most guys are at 100. Too many wannabes on the internet. LR has got me back into hunting.

 

[MMERSS]

Not much to argue about here unless someone just wants to argue.

I often ask the bow hunters who have made 40 yard kills why they didn't wait for the animal to come to within 30 yards of the stand. The reply has been consistent, "because I can kill them at 40 yards, why would I need to wait for them to get to 30 yards."……… Thank you for supporting my argument.

This is often followed by, but..but..but…

No buts, can do or cannot do, that is the jest of the argument and there is no need for further discussion with attempting to convince a Ford fanatic to convert to the Chevy.

 

[MMERSS]

LR has got me back into hunting.

I would say the same. Personal maximum effective range challenges the mind just as much or more than the body. Why not experience a hunt challenging both while maintaining respect for the quarry we have the benefit to hunt?

I would primarily bow hunt without the opportunity to effective range hunt unless the meat was a necessity for the year.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I personally TRY to hunt as LR as possible here in Alabama to keep my skills sharp. I know what a humane distance is for my load and gun... That's just another excellent function of having a ballistics calc on my phone, knowing your gun and bullet specs, and a range finder in my pocket...

Growing up hunting whitetails here in Alabama is quite boring with all these stupid 20-100 yard max shots. Because everyone is a greenfield or hardwood bottom hunter. It's so non-challenging that there's been many years I haven't even gone hunting, other than to drop a few does for meat in the freezer. Nobody ever hunts open hills or valleys, or would even dare to shoot from hill-to-hill. I love that stuff, personally...It trips people out who only shoot 100 yards and in with their old .30-30. So, for someone who grew up in a place like I did, you make a 200 yard shot, and people are like, "**** boy, that was a hell of a shot....200 yards, huh? ****...That's a long shot..." And all I can do is just smile and nod my head. When inside I'm really like ...

All that said, for people like me who didn't grow up shooting long range, it is a fun challenge. But I also do it as humanely as possible, thanks to technology. I know how low certain bullets need to be to function properly, and when you've got a chrono and a ballistics calculator in your hand, it's not hard to figure out how far a particular bullet/load will be effective.

To all those saying that LR hunting is inhumane, I bet you're all a bunch of Bill Mahr and Michael Moore loving liberals... If it's done right, done properly, and done within your skillset, then there's nothing inhumane about it. Know your limitations, and everything will be alright.

 

[MMERSS]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I personally TRY to hunt as LR as possible here in Alabama to keep my skills sharp. I know what a humane distance is for my load and gun...

Responsible hunting is responsible hunting whether 1000 yards or 1 yard. Enjoy any responsible method of hunting choice!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Responsible hunting is responsible hunting whether 1000 yards or 1 yard. Enjoy any responsible method of hunting choice!

I'm serious... When I show up to hunt somewhere, I ask them what fields nobody really goes to because the shots are far. Or, where is their longest shot on the property? They usually look at me like I'm either crazy, or some yuppie trying to sound impressive...But if there's deer there, there will be meat in my freezer.

It happened on the property I hunted last year. I asked the owner where the farthest shot was, he told me, so I went there... 10 mins after I get in the stand, there's a deer standing by itself about 275 yards away... Take my time and finish unloading my pockets to see if anything else will show up (I was impatient, I only waited about 5 mins... LOL) So, I range it out by eye, Put the scope on the dimple, drop the hammer. Kicks and runs 15 yards and drops. My uncle came to pick me back up in the Mule, and we picked up the deer, he looked back to the stand, and just stopped and said, "****.....That was a good shot..." (Like I said, most people in Alabama don't shoot over 150 yards). We got back, and he told them how far it was, and the way they all reacted, you would have thought it was the property record shot distance. LMFAO Dropped another one at 175 the following afternoon, and they started calling me "The Deer Slayer". I would have shot more, but the season ended in the middle of the following week.

Unfortunately I didn't get to re-up this year, and the season ended on Jan 31. Money was too tight to afford the $1,500 dues.

I can't afford it on my own right now (got a few bills to eliminate first), so I've been trying to get my folks to go-in halves on about 60 acres near our lakehouse so we'll have somewhere to hunt and shoot, which will, of course, pay for itself over the years, because land always holds its value. Then I'll eventually build a house on it.

 

[Greyfox]

While I have always shot a rifle for hunting and competition, I focused for about 20 years whitetail hunting using a longbow, primarily for the challenge. I really got into long range rifle hunting after a few trips bow hunting in Alberta, an area which had big whitetails as well as mule deer. We would continually see very mature, large animals that were 500 yards and well beyond which were quite safe from rifle or bow given the open agricultural terrain. These animals were smart and very well adapted to understanding the "safety zone", with some even given names by the locals. This challenge is what got me into the LR game. Now after many years of hunting with a LR rifle and having taken some really nice animals as far as 1000 yards, I have also taken quite a few at shorter ranges. While the long shots are extremely rewarding, I find myself having evolved to a mindset that I'm no longer focusing on the long range aspect, but much more on trying to go after a specific animal(when possible) knowing my long range capability is tool that I have at my disposal should I need it. With this subtle shift in thinking my success rate on taking good animals has gone up radically. The decision on whether to take a long shot or close the distance seems to be different in every case, but always based on the "highest" probability of making the shot. In the case of whitetails, time is the biggest factor. Closing the distance is a low probability move. Mule deer, not so much.IMO.

 

[406precision]

This falls right in line with a write-up I just finished about Maximum Effective Range and Changing the Current Long Range Game..

I'll post it here as it seems it fits and saves me typing out a long winded answer to this post..


If you visit your local gun range or sporting goods store,or pick up a current hunting publication chances are you're going to hear orread an article where someone brings up the topic of long range shooting andhunting…and almost as soon as the topic is brought up a passionate yet oftenmisguided and uninformed debate begins.

Questions like …What caliber do I need to shoot an elk at1000 yards? What scope can I buy that will allow me to just range and shoot?Are often followed by …Is long range shooting really hunting?? Is it ethical totake animals at extended range? What ever happened to fair chase? Etc..

So the question then comes down to…What is it about longrange hunting that fuels such debate?

I think a lot of the debate comes from the way that longrange hunting has been portrayed on television and in turn capitalized on bymanufactures hoping to ride the next hot trend into the sunset sitting atop awheel barrel of cash. Now I don't holdit against anyone for making money…and I dang sure don't hold it against anyonewho is lucky enough to make a living in the sporting industry…but I do have aproblem with the lack of education that has been provided along the way.

This is where I think that we ought to throw away the termlong range hunting and replace it with something called maximum effectiverange. What the heck is maximum effective range???

Maximum effective range is a simple yet vital term thatdescribes your maximum effective range with your chosen weapon. It isn'trelegated just to rifles as it is essential to know your MER regardless of yourchoice of weapon be it a longbow , 338 Lapua or a muzzle loader. MER doesn'tcome with a preset yardage it functions on a very tried and true method thatyou get out of it what you put in.

Each and every sportsman or women needs to know andunderstand their MER in order to make rational and measured choices in thefield. MER is as individual as the hunters themselves and can't be a blanketstatement or fact that can be passed on from one person to the next. It is alearned and established distance that ought to be in the back of every huntersmind when they steady to take a shot.

The more you choose to practice and develop your skills andthe better you learn to take advantage of the new technology and equipmentavailable the further you can develop your MER.

Two essential steps in developing your MER include knowingyour equipment and understanding your skills with the given weapon. This is where it starts to get tricky..intoday's world the sportsman has so muchtechnology at their disposal that it becomes easy for them to take for grantedthat just because you can afford it …doesn't mean you know or understand how touse it, and just because your caliber is capable of extended ranges it doesn'tmean your skills will support it! It's easy to understand how this can happenwhen you can flip to about any hunting channel and watch with your own two eyesas a host takes an animal at a range that makes you go hmmm.

What you don't see and what isn't sold in a store are thenecessary skills and understanding that it takes to make those types of shotsin the field. All too often the sportsman relies on new technology and productsrather than understanding and practice.

Very few hunters take the time to truly learn what theirequipment does and how to properly use it to extend their maximum effectiverange. Those that decide to take the time necessary to school themselves in theuse of their equipment and get out in the field to practice often find that itallows them to take shots beyond their old MER. For those of us who havelearned and practiced what it takes to develop a consistent MER we have at ourdisposal a new tool to add to our hunting toolbox and when an opportunitypresents itself that would have previously been beyond our skill set we cansettle in for the shot knowing " I got this"

Jordan@406

 

[MMERSS]

This falls right in line with a write-up I just finished about Maximum Effective Range and Changing the Current Long Range Game..

I'll post it here as it seems it fits and saves me typing out a long winded answer to this post..


If you visit your local gun range or sporting goods store,or pick up a current hunting publication chances are you're going to hear orread an article where someone brings up the topic of long range shooting andhunting…and almost as soon as the topic is brought up a passionate yet oftenmisguided and uninformed debate begins.

Questions like …What caliber do I need to shoot an elk at1000 yards? What scope can I buy that will allow me to just range and shoot?Are often followed by …Is long range shooting really hunting?? Is it ethical totake animals at extended range? What ever happened to fair chase? Etc..

So the question then comes down to…What is it about longrange hunting that fuels such debate?

I think a lot of the debate comes from the way that longrange hunting has been portrayed on television and in turn capitalized on bymanufactures hoping to ride the next hot trend into the sunset sitting atop awheel barrel of cash. Now I don't holdit against anyone for making money…and I dang sure don't hold it against anyonewho is lucky enough to make a living in the sporting industry…but I do have aproblem with the lack of education that has been provided along the way.

This is where I think that we ought to throw away the termlong range hunting and replace it with something called maximum effectiverange. What the heck is maximum effective range???

Maximum effective range is a simple yet vital term thatdescribes your maximum effective range with your chosen weapon. It isn'trelegated just to rifles as it is essential to know your MER regardless of yourchoice of weapon be it a longbow , 338 Lapua or a muzzle loader. MER doesn'tcome with a preset yardage it functions on a very tried and true method thatyou get out of it what you put in.

Each and every sportsman or women needs to know andunderstand their MER in order to make rational and measured choices in thefield. MER is as individual as the hunters themselves and can't be a blanketstatement or fact that can be passed on from one person to the next. It is alearned and established distance that ought to be in the back of every huntersmind when they steady to take a shot.

The more you choose to practice and develop your skills andthe better you learn to take advantage of the new technology and equipmentavailable the further you can develop your MER.

Two essential steps in developing your MER include knowingyour equipment and understanding your skills with the given weapon. This is where it starts to get tricky..intoday's world the sportsman has so muchtechnology at their disposal that it becomes easy for them to take for grantedthat just because you can afford it …doesn't mean you know or understand how touse it, and just because your caliber is capable of extended ranges it doesn'tmean your skills will support it! It's easy to understand how this can happenwhen you can flip to about any hunting channel and watch with your own two eyesas a host takes an animal at a range that makes you go hmmm.

What you don't see and what isn't sold in a store are thenecessary skills and understanding that it takes to make those types of shotsin the field. All too often the sportsman relies on new technology and productsrather than understanding and practice.

Very few hunters take the time to truly learn what theirequipment does and how to properly use it to extend their maximum effectiverange. Those that decide to take the time necessary to school themselves in theuse of their equipment and get out in the field to practice often find that itallows them to take shots beyond their old MER. For those of us who havelearned and practiced what it takes to develop a consistent MER we have at ourdisposal a new tool to add to our hunting toolbox and when an opportunitypresents itself that would have previously been beyond our skill set we cansettle in for the shot knowing " I got this"

Jordan@406

Jordan,

From my experience, few new LR hunters understand "how" to establish a MER let alone recognize what this concept is about. Pointing them in the right direction to include instruction in class is well worth the investment considering the alternative may result in continuous bad hunting experiences. This is just my opinion but I would be reluctant to attend a shooting school geared toward hunting if MER was not incorporated into the curriculum.

 

[406precision]

Jordan,

From my experience, few new LR hunters understand "how" to establish a MER let alone recognize what this concept is about. Pointing them in the right direction to include instruction in class is well worth the investment considering the alternative may result in continuous bad hunting experiences. This is just my opinion but I would be reluctant to attend a shooting school geared toward hunting if MER was not incorporated into the curriculum.

Amen...this is what its all about teaching people how to effectively use and understand their equipment as well as know and admit their limitations in order to increase their effectiveness in the field.

Jordan@406