Do you use a scope level to keep your rifle level?

[Greyfox]

Each of the shooting disciplines has it's own set of match rules. You can find
equipment lists on the internet. Some of the front sights have lens and
incorporate a level as well.

Some rifle buts are adjustable. If your comfort zone is to shoot the rifle
with a cant to it, you can adjust the but for comfort and still maintain
a verticle line with the target.

Agreed. I think that in Palma, the lower sight height has less effect by rifle cant than a scoped rifle where you can have as much as 2" of height over the bore which would give a more pronounced cant error. Also the repetition of the shooting position in Palma makes ot easier to master a reference point than the varied positions that can occur in the field when hunting, particularly on unlevel surfaces. IMHO

 

[Silverdoctor]

There is a great picture of John Whidden, top score in the Palma tryouts this year, shooting his homemade rifle. It has an adjustable butt that changes the angle he is firing at, but it is clear from the picture that his rifle is still canted to the left. I made the point some time ago that some people can shoot accurately with their rifle canted as long as it is sighted in that way and you always keep the same position... what a friend of mine calls shooting from a natural position. The advantage of a level is that it gives you a reference point to make sure you are always in the same position and a way to see it, but as long as a rifle is sighted in on the target and then fired from the same position, you will hit the mark. I know it rubs a lot of traditional target shooters the wrong way to say this... I don't use a level, but I do practice a great deal and try to maintain the same consistent comfortable position with my body... works for me, especially when I am in the field hunting and not on the range.

 

[1Hunter]

Your point is correct. As long as you are consistant through out the shot and
repeat exactly the same evey time, you will hit in the same place every time.

That's why you can watch some people shoot and they seem to do every thing wrong. But, they keep hitting the buls eye and shoot decent scores.
They do every thing the same each time they shoot. May the good Lord
help them if they ever change one thing.

 

[etisll40]

It's the same thing in golf, some people seem to do everything wrong and yet the ball goes perfectly where it's supposed too.

It seems with shooting, it comes down to practice the same thing that works over and over. Hand eye co-ordination is so important. I'm more concerned with getting my scope and crosshairs correctly lined up to my shooting position. I'd love to see a level through the glass of my scope or a digital readout would be even better.

 

[Silverdoctor]

I agree... the key is not using a level... although it really helps you keep the rifle in the same consistent position to make a shot and for some people it is just the ticket... but for me it is practice, practice, practice in each position until muscle memory takes over and breathing and trigger squeeze, and everything comes together... If a level helps make you a better shot, use one. If you can be in a consistent natural position, just practice it until your body just does it without thinking. If I was shooting targets competitively, I would use a level. But I stopped that 25 years ago and now I just hunt big game. For hunting, I don't want to have a level to distract me... I want to rely on my instincts and the consistency that comes with practice and experience... There are a lot of variable to keep track of in the field and you have to become part of that environment... let the force be with you... LOL.

 

[1Hunter]

It's the same thing in golf, some people seem to do everything wrong and yet the ball goes perfectly where it's supposed too.

It seems with shooting, it comes down to practice the same thing that works over and over. Hand eye co-ordination is so important. I'm more concerned with getting my scope and crosshairs correctly lined up to my shooting position. I'd love to see a level through the glass of my scope or a digital readout would be even better.

I shot competition archery from 1958 until 2007. Levels started showing up
around 1962. Real small glass tubes, which we glued to the back of the bow
at the bottom of the arrow shelf. What happens is that you incorporate
the level into your shot sequence. Practice, practice and practice until
it becomes part of the game.

I understand some of the scope manufacturers are planning to come out
with an inclusive level.

I have a level installed on my rail just under the scope eye piece.
I can see it without moving. I know my set up is right and I forget it
until the next shot.

 

[1Hunter]

I agree... the key is not using a level... although it really helps you keep the rifle in the same consistent position to make a shot and for some people it is just the ticket... but for me it is practice, practice, practice in each position until muscle memory takes over and breathing and trigger squeeze, and everything comes together... If a level helps make you a better shot, use one. If you can be in a consistent natural position, just practice it until your body just does it without thinking. If I was shooting targets competitively, I would use a level. But I stopped that 25 years ago and now I just hunt big game. For hunting, I don't want to have a level to distract me... I want to rely on my instincts and the consistency that comes with practice and experience... There are a lot of variable to keep track of in the field and you have to become part of that environment... let the force be with you... LOL.

The important thing is, that you know what works for you.

I am going to shoot some club competitions. So what I develop is a
shot sequence. A repetitive sequence of moves required in order
fire a shot down range and hit the target as close to center
as possible. This is part of my Practice, Practice and Practice until
it becomes rote.

When hunting season comes, I just change one target for another.

 

[Broz]

I think the latest discussion on this topic greatly depends on a few factors that vary from what one shooter might be thinking to another. They are distance, if you are dialing turrets and if you will be shooting prone while hunting with every place you take a shot from being different terrain. If am taking a 800 yard shot, dialed up 14 moa and prone on a hillside, the level just became a very needed tool for my best attempt at a good first round shot placement.
I understand muscle memory but you can not be consistant when you shoot from different shooting positions all the time evenif they are all prone shots. In the terrain I hunt in mountains the reticle never looks level to the sight picture even when the level says it is. At 400 yards not a big deal, at 1000, I insist on a level.
Jeff

 

[1Hunter]

I agree. Well said.

 

[Len Backus]

This is a long thread and I don't remember if the following has been stated, maybe even by me.

Approximate with a very flat shooting rifle:



If you cant your rifle 6 degrees, similar to one minute on the face of a clock, you introduce 12 inches of horizontal error at 700 yards. If my math is wrong feel free to correct.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

This is a long thread and I don't remember if the following has been stated, maybe even by me.

Approximate with a very flat shooting rifle:



If you cant your rifle 6 degrees, similar to one minute on the face of a clock, you introduce 12 inches of horizontal error at 700 yards. If my math is wrong feel free to correct.

There are many variances here. Degree of cant, scope height above bore, range scope is zero'd at. There really isn't a way to go beyond rule of thumb on this and say you WILL have x amount of drift for 1 degree cant.
I still don't use a level as I spot and stalk and usually shoot within a couple of seconds from sitting when I see a target. I don't use a high mount or sight for extreme range, as with what I shoot I can zero at 250 and hold higher as far out as I'd want to drag a critter.

 

[Len Backus]

Approximate

....

 

[Broz]

I still don't use a level as I spot and stalk and usually shoot within a couple of seconds from sitting when I see a target. I don't use a high mount or sight for extreme range, as with what I shoot I can zero at 250 and hold higher as far out as I'd want to drag a critter.

In my opinion this is not long range hunting / shooting. If you were to crank up your turret for a long shot out there at 800 or 1000 and was to induce the 1 degree cant that Len is talking about you would see the levels are needed. That simple. For stalking in tight areas and a 200 to 300 yards shot, then no you don't need one. The levels are for long range and very necessary.

Jeff

 

[Len Backus]

Broz, I think you meant 6 degrees, same as one minute on the clock.