Buy -VS- Build

[jhfleming]

Want 300 Win Mag for long dist. shooting (1000 yds+). Can't afford a custom am I better off building one from scratch or buying a Rem 700 and accurizing it? Don't know of qualified gun smiths in Dallas area, just moved here.

 

[ATH]

I'm not sure I understand your question. You say you can't afford a custom, but building one from scratch IS custom...and accurizing a Rem700 requires smithing, so your cost savings will be minimal. Accurizing a Rem700 factory action costs nearly the same as many of the custom 700-footprint actions.

The savings you have will be using the factory barrel, and that's the first thing I recommend you replace. My current long range 300WM IS a factory Sendero, and the barrel -- while very accurate -- must be soaked in copper solvent every 12-15 shots to maintain accuracy.

If you want a good-shooting rifle on a budget, buy a low-end Savage and build it yourself. Several makers will sell you a chambered, pre-fit barrel in the $350 range -- and will throat it to your dummy cartridge. Then you install yourself for $0 in smith labor. A decent laminate stock can be had for $160, and composite in the $200-$300 range. Install pillars (if lacking) yourself, do the bedding job yourself.

Now you have a custom rifle ready to shoot for only $550-$850 more than the cheap basic starter gun...pretty close to the price of a high-end factory rifle.

I'm doing this with a 243AI right now.

I had a rifle built by a well-known smith last year. It's an excellent gun and the particular work I needed I could not do myself. But accuracy-wise, I've had no problems getting what I wanted assembling myself on a Savage platform.

 

[roninflag]

I would put a tractor axle contour barrel ( krieger bartlein hart) on a rem 700 action, and a mcmillan stock. remington or savage your choice.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I'm not sure I understand your question. You say you can't afford a custom, but building one from scratch IS custom...and accurizing a Rem700 requires smithing, so your cost savings will be minimal. Accurizing a Rem700 factory action costs nearly the same as many of the custom 700-footprint actions.

The savings you have will be using the factory barrel, and that's the first thing I recommend you replace. My current long range 300WM IS a factory Sendero, and the barrel -- while very accurate -- must be soaked in copper solvent every 12-15 shots to maintain accuracy.

If you want a good-shooting rifle on a budget, buy a low-end Savage and build it yourself. Several makers will sell you a chambered, pre-fit barrel in the $350 range -- and will throat it to your dummy cartridge. Then you install yourself for $0 in smith labor. A decent laminate stock can be had for $160, and composite in the $200-$300 range. Install pillars (if lacking) yourself, do the bedding job yourself.

Now you have a custom rifle ready to shoot for only $550-$850 more than the cheap basic starter gun...pretty close to the price of a high-end factory rifle.

I'm doing this with a 243AI right now.

I had a rifle built by a well-known smith last year. It's an excellent gun and the particular work I needed I could not do myself. But accuracy-wise, I've had no problems getting what I wanted assembling myself on a Savage platform.

I agree all though I am not even close to the 1000 yard range. I took an older savage 110 action my brother had, bought a match grade prefit criterion barrel varmint contour for 350 dollars. I was fortunate I could get the older stock trigger down to 2lbs 8 ounces so I did not need an after market trigger, if you got a savage with an accutrigger then you would not need an after market trigger. I bought a Bell and Carlson stock for 250 dollars. Bought the action wrench and gauges needed for barrel swap. Though it is recommended to further bed stocks that come with aluminum bedding blocks, I did not. I have tested this rifle to 400 yards and it is still maintaining .5MOA if I do my part. These are 3-5 shot groups. The chrono numbers are solid so I do believe it could be a shooter past 700 yards but I just don't have the range to do it.

As for cost:
Used savage rifle or newer savage action: 300-400$ dollars
Barrel: 300-400 dollars depending on what you want...if brake is needed call it 500$
Action wrench: 65$
go/no-go gauges:50$
New barrel nut:25$ (not needed but you might want one)
New recoil lug from SSS or NSS: 30$ (I would definitely buy this)
Stock: 100-700$. You can get a nice boyds laminate for 100 but you WILL have to pillar bed it. Bell and Carlsons go for 250-350 depending on model. HS-precision is 350, manners and mcmillans will be 500+. The type of savage action will limit which stocks you can buy. Choate stocks are typically heaviest and one of the cheapest and sometimes need work to fit well but will do a good job afterwards.

If you go the cheapest routes possible you are looking at 1000$ with the tools needed to change the barrel yourself. You could either sell the tools afterwards to re-coupe some of that money or keep it for possible future builds. If you buy a used savage rifle that is in decent shape, you can typically get 40 bucks for the old stock and 60+ for the barrel you take off. Sometimes upwards of 150 dollars if it is a desirable caliber.

If you go more expensive and get an HS-precision stock or manners/McMillan, you are looking at 1200-1600. The manners and McMillan stocks will have to be pillar bedded as well. If you cant bed a stock yourself this costs typically 200 dollars by a gunsmith.

All these builds will outshoot any factory rifle and will most likely get you to 1000 yards but as you can see at the upper range of these builds you are starting to approach the cost of a "USED" custom sold in the classifieds here. Personally I like to tinker so the savage builds are cool. Once you buy the action/stock you can basically have any caliber you want with little or no effort by changing the barrels out yourself. If that was your desire I would buy a savage "long" action. YES, you can use a long action savage to build a short action cartridge. Some people do this intentionally so they have longer magazines which allows them to load bullets into the lands especially when using burger bullets.
My rifle is currently a 7mm rem mag. If I ever got bored with that cartridge, I could buy a new bolt face for 25 or so bucks, a new match grade barrel 300 bucks, set of go gauges 30-50 depending if you want the "no go", sell my old match grade barrel for say 200+ dollars and bamn I have a new cartridge built on an action and stock I know already works for me for little extra money. this is of course as long as the new barrel is a similar contour to the old.

 

[ATH]

Just to add -- if you are married to the Rem700 action they also sell "Rem/age" barrels, which are exactly the same concept as the Savage pre-fit except you buy a barrel nut to use with the Remington action. This allows you to similarly do your own barrel work on the Rem700 action.

In another thousand rounds when my 300WM barrel goes, I'll likely go this route.

Due to the economy, this can be addicting. I bought a Savage package gun in 243Win, sold the scope. Turned it into a smokeless muzzleloader with an HS Precision stock, and occasionally switched back to the 243Win barrel in the off season for coyotes. I bought another Savage and had a smith build a 358 Indiana deer legal rifle in 358 WSM 1.8" (we have odd regs with minimum caliber/max brass length required). It was the need for a custom chamber that required me to use a smith. But I'm doing all the stock work myself.

Now I have a Shilen 243AI barrel on order, which will use the smokeless ML's action in a new McMillan stock. I'll find a new donor action to receive the smokeless barrel and HS Precision stock.

So three custom Savages, and the only work I will have paid for is the chambering and barrel installation for the one which is a wildcat...approximately $600-700 in actual gunsmith labor, excluding parts, across three custom rifles!

 

[IdahoCTD]

I'd buy a Rem. 700 long range and a Jewell trigger. Put a good scope on it and go shoot. If nothing else Benchmark is doing a group buy with action truing, fitting, and a barrel for a good price. That would put you around 15-1600 for a complete gun with a custom barrel and a Jewell trigger. It's hard to beat that price when a Sendero is 1200 or so new.

 

[el matador]

I'd buy a Rem. 700 long range and a Jewell trigger. Put a good scope on it and go shoot. If nothing else Benchmark is doing a group buy with action truing, fitting, and a barrel for a good price. That would put you around 15-1600 for a complete gun with a custom barrel and a Jewell trigger. It's hard to beat that price when a Sendero is 1200 or so new.

I like this route. Any of the heavy barrel Remington's would be a good bet, my favorite is the 5R Milspec. You can get them in 300 Win mag with a 26" barrel or 24" threaded. Add a good trigger, maybe skim bed it and you'll probably have a solid 1/2-3/4 moa gun for under $1300. Slap on a brake for $150-200 if you want. By the time you are good enough to need something more accurate it'll be time to rebarrel anyway and you can spin on a match grade barrel for $700 or so.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I like this route. Any of the heavy barrel Remington's would be a good bet, my favorite is the 5R Milspec. You can get them in 300 Win mag with a 26" barrel or 24" threaded. Add a good trigger, maybe skim bed it and you'll probably have a solid 1/2-3/4 moa gun for under $1300. Slap on a brake for $150-200 if you want. By the time you are good enough to need something more accurate it'll be time to rebarrel anyway and you can spin on a match grade barrel for $700 or so.

this is true BUT I am not sure how I feel about remingtons these days. I had two friends buy remingtons. One is a sendero SFII the other a regular old SPS. The SPS far outshoots the sendero. My friend is in the process of having his sendero rebarreled.

With the savage build, you KNOW for FACT you will have a .5MOA gun for 1000-1500 depending if you go with a manners/McMillan stock over a bell and Carlson, HS precision, choate, or boyds laminate. This is of course if you need absolute budget building and do not intend on trying to sell the rifle later. Remingtons hold their value much better,

 

[Bigeclipse]

Just to add -- if you are married to the Rem700 action they also sell "Rem/age" barrels, which are exactly the same concept as the Savage pre-fit except you buy a barrel nut to use with the Remington action. This allows you to similarly do your own barrel work on the Rem700 action.

In another thousand rounds when my 300WM barrel goes, I'll likely go this route.

Due to the economy, this can be addicting. I bought a Savage package gun in 243Win, sold the scope. Turned it into a smokeless muzzleloader with an HS Precision stock, and occasionally switched back to the 243Win barrel in the off season for coyotes. I bought another Savage and had a smith build a 358 Indiana deer legal rifle in 358 WSM 1.8" (we have odd regs with minimum caliber/max brass length required). It was the need for a custom chamber that required me to use a smith. But I'm doing all the stock work myself.

Now I have a Shilen 243AI barrel on order, which will use the smokeless ML's action in a new McMillan stock. I'll find a new donor action to receive the smokeless barrel and HS Precision stock.

So three custom Savages, and the only work I will have paid for is the chambering and barrel installation for the one which is a wildcat...approximately $600-700 in actual gunsmith labor, excluding parts, across three custom rifles!

Be careful as the remingtons require you to modify your Remington action before the REMAGE system will work. although it doesn't seem too difficult it will certainly hurt any hope of resale value if you ever want to sell the action later. Also, note that Savage rifles have the floated bolt head which is why blueprinting is not as necessary as it is with Remington actions. Personally, I like remingtons better for looks and how the action slides so nice and if I was not on a budget I would build all my rifles on Remington 700s BUT the savage route is just so easy and cheap which is why I have been going that route.

Again I have only built the one savage so far but dang does that thing shoot! under an inch at 300 yards.

 

[ATH]

Be careful as the remingtons require you to modify your Remington action before the REMAGE system will work. although it doesn't seem too difficult it will certainly hurt any hope of resale value if you ever want to sell the action later. Also, note that Savage rifles have the floated bolt head which is why blueprinting is not as necessary as it is with Remington actions. Personally, I like remingtons better for looks and if I was not on a budget I would build all my rifles on Remington 700s BUT the savage route is just so easy and cheap why is why I have been going that route.

Again I have only built the one savage so far but dang does that thing shoot! under an inch at 300 yards.

Thanks - forgot to mention about having to slot for indexing the lug.

 

[IdahoCTD]

You'd be surprised at how well most Remingtons shoot without blueprinting. I have a pile of Remingtons with just the lugs lapped and most shoot 1/4-3/8 MOA. Pining a recoil lug is no big deal if you want to do a Remage system.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Build it. No question.

As for Savage or Reminton, with or without remage nut. It's not the only option just a popular option. Apply all the things said to Weatherby. AFAIK Ruger and Winchester require machining after chambering so they are not an "no smith" option.

 

[Bigeclipse]

You'd be surprised at how well most Remingtons shoot without blueprinting. I have a pile of Remingtons with just the lugs lapped and most shoot 1/4-3/8 MOA. Pining a recoil lug is no big deal if you want to do a Remage system.

I know I was just stating some things to consider. If I knew I wanted to absolutely keep the Remington 700 action for myself forever I would have no reserves using my dremel to modify it for a savage recoil lug BUT I was just stating resale value of that action would now be poor because you would either need to sell it as a semi-custom REMAGE system which most people do not know the value of OR you would sell the action by itself and no one buying a Remington 700 action for a custom would want it cut into for a remage system unless...again that is what they originally wanted to do. Just something to consider.

the key with going remage is that aftermarket goodies are more plentiful for remingtons which is GREAT!!! BUT savage "semi-customs" are starting to become really popular as people are finding it really easy to build these things accurate enough for hunting purposes out to pretty extreme distances. Yes it is forum chatter, but if you go to savage shooters there are many reports of simply savage builds allowing .5MOA accuracy out to 700+ yards. My current build has proven itself out to 400 yards, but I am confident in the chrono figures that it will be great at further distances just don't have the range to shoot it further.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I like this route. Any of the heavy barrel Remington's would be a good bet, my favorite is the 5R Milspec. You can get them in 300 Win mag with a 26" barrel or 24" threaded. Add a good trigger, maybe skim bed it and you'll probably have a solid 1/2-3/4 moa gun for under $1300. Slap on a brake for $150-200 if you want. By the time you are good enough to need something more accurate it'll be time to rebarrel anyway and you can spin on a match grade barrel for $700 or so.

You mean like these?