bullet expansion test results

[yorke-1]

I've got some 285 eld-m 338's I'll send you if you want to test those.

That'd be great! I'll shoot you a PM with my address.

That is an excellent job! I have done a LOT of bullet testing over the years and can appreciate your work. There are two things that really stood out to me. (1) The 300 SMK really surprised me and was very impressive! When I have tested .308 sized SMK's in the past, it took a LOT more velocity to get anything other than a banana bullet (bent tip with NO expansion) (2) I have been telling people for years that a 140 vld will not expand at 1800 as advertised but takes more like 2200 to be consistent, and this is more proof. NICE JOB! I will get those samples in the mail on mon..........Rich

I'm try and get some impacts at around 2000 fps on some of these bullets too. I was hoping for impact velocities a little closer to 1800 fps but I'm kind of lazy and just went with a mid charge weight, not going for any real velocity.

Thanks York,

That is a lot of work, I know. Stability becomes a huge variable as far as keeping the point oriented forward. Bullets that do not have lead all the way to the nose will have a difficult time working without fluid to cause the expansion. The lead all the way to the nose acts like fluid on impact due to how soft it is. Our testing shows that a stability less than 1.5sg will inhibit expansion because the bullet will tip or yaw on impact and close the hp.

Something that you could try that would be easy is to put a 1gal milk jug in front of the trap. This will give the hydraulics needed to start expansion. This would not be nearly as messy as trying to figure out how to soak the media. Soaked media would be best in my opinion but very difficult to deal with.

Steve

I thought about the milk jugs and then realized that my kids would need to start drinking a lot more milk to keep up with the demand for empty jugs! I do have an idea for the next trip out though. I'm going to pick up a big plastic bin to use instead of my wood box. Instead of stacking the leather I'm going to fill the bin with water and then just sort of pile the leather inside. Without a top on the bin, it should allow for enough expansion to keep from blowing the whole thing apart on the first shot. I hope! I'm going to order up some more Hammer to test but I can't decide which one to test. I'm thinking either one of the .243s or the 117gr .270. The 80gr 6mm would be great in my 6mm BR pistol.

Just for fun, here are a few more pic of yesterday's tests.

Savage Striker 338/375 Ruger


Ruger M77 tang safety 300 Win Mag


Arnold Arms Stainless 2000 458 Arnold


CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel


Test loads sorted and ready to go.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I thought about the milk jugs and then realized that my kids would need to start drinking a lot more milk to keep up with the demand for empty jugs!

All my life I have been athletic. When I wanted a bunch of empty one gallon milk jugs I went to the local recycle center. They have portable trash truck beds there. Not realizing I'm an old man I dropped down in there and threw out about one hundred into my pickup. It took several minutes to find the ones with tops.

When I started to get out I reached up on the side which was a couple inches higher than my head. My old man arms were not strong enough to get my elbows up enough to get a foot up on the edge. Laughing, I gave calling 911 a moment's thought. Then I decided to push my way through the jugs to the corner. There I pushed with a foot sorta of pulled up and crawled and got a foot up on the edge. Once there it was easy peasy.

Three of us shot 101 water filled one gallon jugs and photoed every shot. The exercise took all day. The big surprise was the Freedom Arms 260 grain launched from a .454 at 1,925 feet per second. They even beat the Nosler .375 Partitions launched at 2,930 feet per second.

 

[TC338]

That'd be great! I'll shoot you a PM with my address.



I'm try and get some impacts at around 2000 fps on some of these bullets too. I was hoping for impact velocities a little closer to 1800 fps but I'm kind of lazy and just went with a mid charge weight, not going for any real velocity.



I thought about the milk jugs and then realized that my kids would need to start drinking a lot more milk to keep up with the demand for empty jugs! I do have an idea for the next trip out though. I'm going to pick up a big plastic bin to use instead of my wood box. Instead of stacking the leather I'm going to fill the bin with water and then just sort of pile the leather inside. Without a top on the bin, it should allow for enough expansion to keep from blowing the whole thing apart on the first shot. I hope! I'm going to order up some more Hammer to test but I can't decide which one to test. I'm thinking either one of the .243s or the 117gr .270. The 80gr 6mm would be great in my 6mm BR pistol.

Just for fun, here are a few more pic of yesterday's tests.

Savage Striker 338/375 Ruger


Ruger M77 tang safety 300 Win Mag


Arnold Arms Stainless 2000 458 Arnold


CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel


Test loads sorted and ready to go.

I'll be looking for it

 

[bigngreen]

Shooting and catching bullets is stupid fun, I go through a lot of 2 gal DEF jugs and 2.5 gal coolant jugs at work and they work very well, I also built an open top 55 gal drum with a resealing from target window to catch them, and it's all fun.

You will see a big difference in some of the bullets when shot into media that can provide a hydraulic action vs blunt force opening!!

 

[yorke-1]

All my life I have been athletic. When I wanted a bunch of empty one gallon milk jugs I went to the local recycle center. They have portable trash truck beds there. Not realizing I'm an old man I dropped down in there and threw out about one hundred into my pickup. It took several minutes to find the ones with tops.

When I started to get out I reached up on the side which was a couple inches higher than my head. My old man arms were not strong enough to get my elbows up enough to get a foot up on the edge. Laughing, I gave calling 911 a moment's thought. Then I decided to push my way through the jugs to the corner. There I pushed with a foot sorta of pulled up and crawled and got a foot up on the edge. Once there it was easy peasy.

Three of us shot 101 water filled one gallon jugs and photoed every shot. The exercise took all day. The big surprise was the Freedom Arms 260 grain launched from a .454 at 1,925 feet per second. They even beat the Nosler .375 Partitions launched at 2,930 feet per second.

That's funny! I didn't think about hitting a recycle center, that's a great idea! Those 260gr Freedom Arms bullets are like jacketed concrete! I played with some of those a couple years ago in my 454 and they just keep on going!

 

[elkaholic]

Another thing I have done is use a plastic barrel with a trash can liner and start out shooting high then down. You can get several shots and then just change the liner. I would put a few layers of berber carpet behind to catch the spent bullets.....Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Mailing to you tomorrow:

(.264)
143 ELDX
147 ELDM
150 Matrix

(.270)
130 Scirocco

(.308)
242 SXRH

(.338)
250 Berger Elite

.........Rich

 

[yorke-1]

Mailing to you tomorrow:

(.264)
143 ELDX
147 ELDM
150 Matrix

(.270)
130 Scirocco

(.308)
242 SXRH

(.338)
250 Berger Elite

.........Rich

Awesome, thanks! The only problem is that now I have to put a scope back on the 6.5x47 Lapua so I can test the bullets! Unless you want those 6.5's torture tested at over 3400 fps from the 6.5 Badger!

I'm not familiar with the 242gr .308 bullet. Any details on that one?

 

[elkaholic]

Awesome, thanks! The only problem is that now I have to put a scope back on the 6.5x47 Lapua so I can test the bullets! Unless you want those 6.5's torture tested at over 3400 fps from the 6.5 Badger!

I'm not familiar with the 242gr .308 bullet. Any details on that one?

No torture please! The 242 is one that I make. I would like it tested down around 1500 if possible........thanks/Rich

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Very interesting info here. Especially interest in the 143 X, 147 M's and 285 M's.

Thanks for the testing!

Ray

 

[Greyfox]

I was surprised with your results with the Berger 140 Hunting VLD'. Even with a 1:8 twist and 1700 FPS muzzle velocity, this bullet is still stable with a 1.5 stability factor(2000Ft@50F). Something else may be going on with the rifle/load. It will be interesting to see your repeat test.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I was surprised with your results with the Berger 140 Hunting VLD'. Even with a 1:8 twist and 1700 FPS muzzle velocity, this bullet is still stable with a 1.5 stability factor(2000Ft@50F). Something else may be going on with the rifle/load. It will be interesting to see your repeat test.

I think Yorke is pretty low in elevation. I just ran the numbers at 1000' and it shows 1.44 stability. There is some snow in his pics so not sure what the temp was, but temp makes a big diff in stability.

I'm thinking a combo of things. Slightly marginal on stability and no fluid for the hp to get going. I know in our testing slightly marginal stability can make the difference in working or not.

Steve

 

[Greyfox]

Agreed, that lower altitude and temp would certainly put that bullet into the marginal range. Even at higher velocities it may take the VLD's some distance to stabilize. The lower juice in the Grendel case could have been just enough to take what would have been an initial wobble into a complete tumble. I have achieved consistent stability and terminal performance with this bullet out of my 6.5x284's, 3000FPS MV, past 1000 yards at 2300FT in freezing temps. The bullet seems to separate at the core at 100 yards, and form a classic mushroom at 1000 yards. Both states will kill medium sized game quite well.

 

[elkaholic]

Agreed, that lower altitude and temp would certainly put that bullet into the marginal range. Even at higher velocities it may take the VLD's some distance to stabilize. The lower juice in the Grendel case could have been just enough to take what would have been an initial wobble into a complete tumble. I have achieved consistent stability and terminal performance with this bullet out of my 6.5x284's, 3000FPS MV, past 1000 yards at 2300FT in freezing temps. The bullet seems to separate at the core at 100 yards, and form a classic mushroom at 1000 yards. Both states will kill medium sized game quite well.

What media were you using? I have had very little luck getting them to open at that velocity with water, moist clay, etc. .......Rich