Bullet expansion

[BoomFlop]

What bullets will expand the most without exploding for 308 Win and 7-08 Rem? Let's call average shots of 50-150 yards.

I don't understand how some bullets are harder or softer compared to other calibers. For example, I have read that the 120 Ballistic Tip (7mm) is a harder bullet compared to say the 140 Ballistic Tip (7mm).

I also know that velocity effects expansion, however, can the 308 and 7mm-08 even produce velocities that create over expansion?

I'd like some general bullet information in these calibers. Not really loads, but for those of you that have a lot of experience with different bullets in these calibers please give me your break down of performance experience in comparison to other bullets.

Just looking for bullet performace differences in these calibers at closer ranges.

Thanks all,
Steve

 

[J E Custom]

What bullets will expand the most without exploding for 308 Win and 7-08 Rem? Let's call average shots of 50-150 yards.

I don't understand how some bullets are harder or softer compared to other calibers. For example, I have read that the 120 Ballistic Tip (7mm) is a harder bullet compared to say the 140 Ballistic Tip (7mm).

I also know that velocity effects expansion, however, can the 308 and 7mm-08 even produce velocities that create over expansion?

I'd like some general bullet information in these calibers. Not really loads, but for those of you that have a lot of experience with different bullets in these calibers please give me your break down of performance experience in comparison to other bullets.

Just looking for bullet performace differences in these calibers at closer ranges.

Thanks all,
Steve

Lighter bullets do a better job in cases like the 308 and 7/08, I try to keep the velocity close to or slightly above 3000 ft/sec. At these velocities, I like the 120 Ballistic tip for the 7/08 and 150 grain bullets for the 308. If stepping to a much more powerful 7 mm or 30 cal then I recommend a bonded core bullet for more controlled expansion.

Also if you go to heavier bullets in these two cartridges slower velocities will slow expansion if you want less. 140 or 150 grain for the 7/08 and 160 to 170 grain for the 308.

Shooting paper with these two cartridges eliminates the velocity needs and any good bullet with desired accuracy is best.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[catamountsierra]

I have shot 2 deer and an elk with my 7mm-08, all with good results. The first deer was shot with a 140gr Accubond at 60 yards with a muzzle velocity of 2825fps. The deer was slightly quartering towards me, and I hit it through the upper front leg, heart, and both lungs; it was dead before it hit the ground. The exit hole was about 3/4" and the heart and lungs were unidentifiable jello. Perfect, as far as I am concerned.
The elk was shot at 200 yards with a 150gr Accubond Long Range launched at 2750fps. The cow elk was broadside and I missed ribs, but the bullet turned the heart and one lung to jello. Exit was about 1/2". The cow walked about 40 yards before laying down dead. The second deer was shot with the same load at 175 yards, and just vanished out of the scope (probably shouldn't have cranked it up to 16x). It just fell straight down and never moved. Another broadside shot, between ribs on entrance and hit one on exit; I missed the heart on this one but both lungs were reduced to jello. Exit hole was about 1". I would definitely recommend either of these bullets for the 7mm-08 based on that small sample. They seem to open enough to do substantial damage even on a broadside shot without bone contact, but I believe they would hold together going through heavier bone as well. I think the ideal shot would be through heart and lungs and through a rib on entrance.

 

[RT2506]

For the yardages described for the 308s usage on deer the 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is hard to beat. Keep impact velocity under 3000 fps. Impact velocity below 2800 fps usually results in an exit with broadside shots through the shoulders. I have used this bullet for years in all my 30 cal. weapons for deer. 46 grs IMR 4895, WW case, CCI BR primer runs 3000 fps from my 21 1/2" barrel 308 Win. I have killed 50+ deer out to a little over 300 yards with this and have never had a deer go over three jumps with most bang flop. I run this bullet in my 30x47 rifle I run it 2800 fps and my T/C Contender 14" barrel 30-30AI pistol I run it 2670 fps. All just smoke deer. Have not used it yet but the 125 Nosler Accubond may be really good also.

 

[okie man]

Most of the standard cup and core bullets in those diameters will be just fine in your calibers. Put them right behind the front shoulder and you'll have a dead deer at the end of a short blood trail. Hornady, speer, sierra and nosler all make bullets of proper construction and weight for your calibers. Pick the one that is most accurate and practice

 

[LVJ76]

There are some soft bullets that at magnum velocities explode upon impact. Some of these are the common cup and core like Sierra Game Kings, Hornady SST's and Nosler Ballistic Tips amongst others.

At the 7x08 and 308 Win speeds you'll rarely have this problem. On my 7x08 the 139gr SST and 140 gr Ballistic Silvertips do a magnificent job on deer and smaller game from 50 to 500 yards. On Elk I would use a 140gr bonded bullet or a Nosper Partition, they are tougher animals therefore need a tougher bullet to ensure deep penetration. Hope this helps.

Regards

LVJ76

 

[LVJ76]

Lighter bullets do a better job in cases like the 308 and 7/08, I try to keep the velocity close to or slightly above 3000 ft/sec. At these velocities, I like the 120 Ballistic tip for the 7/08 and 150 grain bullets for the 308. If stepping to a much more powerful 7 mm or 30 cal then I recommend a bonded core bullet for more controlled expansion.

Also if you go to heavier bullets in these two cartridges slower velocities will slow expansion if you want less. 140 or 150 grain for the 7/08 and 160 to 170 grain for the 308.

Shooting paper with these two cartridges eliminates the velocity needs and any good bullet with desired accuracy is best.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

I've never used the 120gr Ballistic Tips before and I keep hearing they work very well. I have a few of them and developed a nice load for my 7x08 so will be using them week on my Javelina Hunt. How have these performed on deer size game for you?

Regards

LVJ76

 

[bigngreen]

I load the 215 berger for all my shooting in the 308, some buddies have been shooting the 200.20x Berger may be right there as well. Shooting heavies completely changed my out look on the 308!!

 

[BoomFlop]

What did the heavy for calibers do better? On game performance wise?

 

[J E Custom]

I've never used the 120gr Ballistic Tips before and I keep hearing they work very well. I have a few of them and developed a nice load for my 7x08 so will be using them week on my Javelina Hunt. How have these performed on deer size game for you?

Regards

LVJ76

In the beginning, I Tried most all 284 bullet weight and found that most bullets over 150 gave up to much velocity in the 7/08 and bullet performance suffered. I found that the 120 grain Ballistic Tip at or above 3000 ft/sec performed very well on deer and hogs. I built a 7/08 AI to hopefully step up the velocity for the 140 grain ballistic Tip
to 3000 ft/sec so I could get the same performance as the 120 with a larger bullet.

I use the 150 grain in my 7/08 pistol and performance is also very good to 500 + yards.

H-414 and Varget are my best powders for the 120s.

J E CUSTOM

 

[LVJ76]

Thanks J E for your input, appreciate it.

I now mostly use around the 140's but have used 160's in the past and also suffered on performance due to loss of velocity when going for 400 or 500 yards.

I'll give these 120gr a try and see how they work. Thanks again

LVJ76

 

[catamountsierra]

From my experience, 140-150gr seems to be a good compromise between velocity, short-range flat trajectory, and long distance staying power. If I was only shooting smaller deer at ranges under 300 yards, I think the 120gr bullets pushed fast would do an excellent job, and I have heard lots of reports from others to back that up. When you add longer distances and larger game, I find a heavier and tougher bullet is called for. If I had ever been chasing moose with my 7mm08, I probably would be stepping up to 165-175gr bullets and trying to keep shots under 200.
The key, I think, is to understand the limits imposed by your choice of cartridge and bullet.

 

[catamountsierra]

I generally aim to find a load that ends up being well suited for both deer and elk out to as far as I feel comfortable with my shooting. Now that I am stepping that rifle up to 284 Win, I am aiming at finding a load using a quality bullet in the 162-168gr range; if I was going to a 7RM or similar, I would probably be looking 175gr+. I don't have enough rifles to have them too specialized at this point, so I want a load that will handle as many circumstances as possible.

 

[LVJ76]

Well said Catamount, well said

Boomflop:
From my personal experience heavy for caliber bullets are better when used say under 200 yards on a cartridge like 7x08 or 308 Win, for example a 175gr, 180gr or 200gr. But, these same bullets' performance shines on a cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 Win Mag where they can be used at 1000 yards or even further.

When you get a chance visit:
https://www.ballisticstudies.com
Here you will find everything you need to know about bullet performance by caliber and cartridge. Also tons of info on Effective Game Killing and more. Get the books by Nathan Foster, I highly recommend them.