Bullet choices for 300 RUM

MontanaRifleman

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South of Canada and North of Wyoming
I have not had the time to do any serious load development for my RUM but I have decided on the bullet manufacturer. Barnes. In the group that I hunt with the Barnes bullet has been an excellant choice. Through and through penetration with large exit wounds. The only animal that we have hunted with the Barnes bullet has been elk. Ranges from 30 yards to 637 yards (ranged). This year we finally recovered a bullet from a poor shot. Less than 100 yards almost at the point of the hip. Lost most of that quarter but the recovered bullet weighed 156 grains of what started as a 168 grain TTSX.

My question is why no one is mentioning the Barnes bullet as an option for loads in this thread. I don't have an axe to grind one way or another but just asking.

In my experience with the Nosler bullets I was never able to get them to shoot accurately in five different 30-06 rifles I was reloading for. At that time I quit trying the Noslers and went back to the Sierra Game King that gave me sub moa groups in all five rifles. One of those rifles was my fathers military surplus Springfield that shot a 3/4" group with an issue two land barrel. The SGKs performed as well as anything we have used to date. I think we have succumbed to the hype about using premium bullets.

I am on a quest to make my RUM shoot itty bitty groups like my 06 did. I will follow this thread to gather any and all opinions, thoughts and recipes.

Thank you to all that post in this thread.
Howdy elkhunter, welcome to the discussion.

It's interesting to read and hear different experiences with various guns, powder, bullets, etc. In contrast to you, I have had nothing but but good results with Noslers - Partitions, AB's, Ballisitic Silvertips and E-Tips, in all the rifles I have shot them in.

Specifically related to this thread, my best groups in load development for my Sendero 300 RUM have been .4" @ 212 yds and 1.8" @ 427 yds with 180 E-Tips. When my rifle isn't over fouled, it will shoot these bullets consistantly at about .5 MOA out to 500 yds so far. So apparantly in some rifles they shoot well. I've also done some load work with the 200 AB's and they shot well, but I ran out of them and didn't get anymore because I was satisfied with the results I was getting from the E-Tips.

Another thing about Barnes bullets is that they have relatively low BC's which is not good for LR shooting. That being said, accuracy is more important than BC, but there are a lot of bullets to go through before you get down to the Barnes on the BC scale. And they are all proven killers in one way or another. I did some load development with 168 TTSX's in my 300 WSM a while back and found that their tips were a little on the delicate side. They didn't take rough handling very well. I broke off 2 cycling them through the action and a couple more when pulling bullets out of the cases. The E-Tips seem to be more rugged.

Have you tried the E-Tips yet? They are a great bullet with a good BC, and they will get a lot farther down ranges than the TSX/TTSX's.

Regards,

Mark
 

RockyMtnMT

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Interesting thread another member just started about a Barnes 200 grain TTSX in .308 that supposedly will have a .540 BC. Link below.


some-good-news
Unless they have done something to heavy up the mono-metal alloy to get to 200g without getting the bullet much longer, this is going to be a tough bullet to stabilize in any conventional twist rate. Are they showing any external dimensions for these 200g TTSX? I would think it would take a 1-8 twist to handle it well. Maybe it is a short fat/no ogive bullet? The bc is close to the E-tip 180g. Must be a short ogive.

Steve
 

MontanaRifleman

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Unless they have done something to heavy up the mono-metal alloy to get to 200g without getting the bullet much longer, this is going to be a tough bullet to stabilize in any conventional twist rate. Are they showing any external dimensions for these 200g TTSX? I would think it would take a 1-8 twist to handle it well. Maybe it is a short fat/no ogive bullet? The bc is close to the E-tip 180g. Must be a short ogive.

Steve
Yup, I think they would do better to improve the shape of their 180 bullet to get a better BC in a 10 twist which is standard in 90% of the factory rilfes.

Right now they are advertsing the 180 as a .484 requiring an 11 twist. The 180 E-Tip has near the same BC and will go 200 fps faster out of the RUM, so if the BCs are accurate, the E-Tip still will outrun it.
 

Jon A

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Dec 28, 2001
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Mukilteo, WA
I am not sure that it is worth the trouble for me. If the advertised bc's are getting me on target, I'm good. If I am running a little high or low, then a slight adjustment in the program should get me on. As long as my drop chart matches my impacts, what diff does it make?
Because if you're committing two "wrongs" (or more) to make a "right," sooner or later it will catch up with you and bite you in the ***. :D

For example, if you get an opportunity to hunt in a different location with a large difference in elevation from where you developed the dropcharts....it's unlikely you'll be able to go weeks in advance and fire hundreds of rounds to come up with brand new dropcharts from scratch for the new location--you'll need to rely on ballistics programs. If you're fudging to make them work at your current location, expecting the fudges to work at a new location is pushing your luck.

Or say you have a problem with your scope . It happens. Things break. If you replace your 1/4 MOA scope with another 1/4 MOA scope all your data you've collected over that past few years should still be valid, right? Well, maybe, maybe not. If you measure you will be sure.
Sounds very interesting Jon, do you have a link or pic of this instrument?
HERE you go. It's really simple and it will pay for itself. Here's a few shots of what it looks like:



So with a Mil reticle it 10 Mils should cover 36". Crank the knob 10 mils it should go 36". If it does something different, then it's off. At least now you know. If your MOA scope takes 36 MOA to go 36" then you know it's not really MOA but IPHY. If it takes between 34.25 and 34.5 to go 36" it's dead on. Don't worry be happy. If it's something different, then it's just off and you'll need to correct for it in the ballistic programs. The scope is still usable, you just need to adjust your charts.

It's also very valuable for checking things like reticle cant--if you crank in a bunch of elevation and it moves laterally, that may explain mysterious wind or "spin drift" problems you may have thought you had which caused misses at long range.... "Dead clicks" near the top of your elevation travel? Better to know where they start before you waste a bunch of ammo and barrel life wondering why you can't hit the **** target at long range.....

Anyway, the scope is such a large part of the equation of hitting at long range I feel people would save themselves so much time, frustration and money by simply checking the operation of theirs when so many scopes frankly don't perform correctly. So it goes without saying, if it's being used as a precision instrument to aid in measuring the BC of a bullet, you really need to know it's calibrated correctly.
So, in theory, you should be able to do this without firing a shot. Right? Set your measuring stick at a known distance, lock your rifle down, see how far the clicks move on the stick. Then do the math.
Yup, that'll work. A simple yardstick at 100 yds is quick and easy and will do the trick:



Hold the rifle steady and click away. It helps to have another person if you don't have a vice or something to lock the rifle down with. Anyway, back to bullets....
My question is why no one is mentioning the Barnes bullet as an option for loads in this thread.
Low BC's, that's all. They aren't bad bullets and can get the job done at long ranges...especially using rounds like the RUM--it can fling a brick through the air so fast it'll perform impressively out to ranges few "normal" hunters would dream of shooting (which is sort of what we've been talking about).

But this being a LRH site, when you're talking about bullets with BC's below .5 there are simply much better tools for the job. Sometimes it takes a while and many rounds downrange for people to figure that out. All I can do is lead the horses to the creek.... :D

Yup, I think they would do better to improve the shape of their 180 bullet to get a better BC in a 10 twist which is standard in 90% of the factory rilfes.
Yup. Their old XBT/XLC's with smooth sides and secant ogives actually had higher BC's than their new tipped bullets. The pudgy round noses and grooves took away more than the plastic tips added.
 

jmden

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Jon A,

I'm sure I'm showing my lack of knowledge here, but how does that boresighter work when you have different barrel lengths and thus different distances from the scope reticle? If one barrel is 24" and another is 30", wouldn't that change the 'scale' of the boresighter such that the measurements would be inconsistent? What about a rifle that has the scope moved forward a bit more for prone shooting than is typical for most rifle? So, how does the boresighter you linked to adjust for different fore/aft scope positions and/or different barrel lengths and still remain a truly consistent measuring device? There must be a principle at work that I'm not aware of. I've not used boresighters/collimators and have no experience here.

Jon
 

MontanaRifleman

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Jon , that's a slick little tool and I've see them before. I use a plumb bob on a line and set my rifle and scope up a few yards away to eyeball center of bore and align the windage retcile of the scope on the plumb bob line. Then I do the shooting routine to confirm it. The leupold tool is good but the slightest cant in the tool will lead to down range drifting. That's why I like to confirm with actual shooting. If your groups are tight, the results are relaible. I think the idea fo checking the movement range of the turret against a yardstick is a great idea. If set up at 50 yds, 30 MOA in each direction (60 MOA total) could be confirmed which would be more than enough for an accurate measurement. With a 20 MOA base, I would probaly go 40 up and 20 down.

Thanks for the pics and the info. This is a great site :)

Mark
 

Jon A

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Mukilteo, WA
There must be a principle at work that I'm not aware of.
Yeah, it's not like looking through a little window where the closer you are to the window anything on it gets bigger relative to what you see through it, etc. That wouldn't be very useful. It's a bit more complicated than that optically.

Collimators basically only allow through parallel light rays which is the same effect as looking at an object a very long distance away so a couple inches closer or farther makes no measurable difference. It's also how the image can be in focus and parallax free at such a short range, where any real object would not be through the scope.

Anyway, the end result is that barrel length won't matter--you won't be able to measure any difference in the size of the grid. Of course I fully recommend checking the calibration of your tools so it's certainly a good idea to check a scope you've measured "the old fashioned way" (yardstick at 100 yds or similar) to make sure the collimator's grid can be believed. Everything has manufacturing tolerances so there sure could be a +/- % on it as well. You'll find what that is, if any, by checking it against a known quantity scope.
The leupold tool is good but the slightest cant in the tool will lead to down range drifting. That's why I like to confirm with actual shooting.
The tool only has cant if you put it on crooked. :D You line it up with your reticle when you put it on. Actual shooting at 50 yds (so wind will not have much effect) will work as well but it's not necessary. The tool will easily show if you have so much as a single click's worth of lateral movement for 100, 150, 200, etc, clicks of vertical movement. There's really no more accurate way to do it.
 

30-338

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Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
214
Location
SF Bay Area
I have not had the time to do any serious load development for my RUM but I have decided on the bullet manufacturer. Barnes. In the group that I hunt with the Barnes bullet has been an excellant choice. Through and through penetration with large exit wounds. The only animal that we have hunted with the Barnes bullet has been elk. Ranges from 30 yards to 637 yards (ranged). This year we finally recovered a bullet from a poor shot. Less than 100 yards almost at the point of the hip. Lost most of that quarter but the recovered bullet weighed 156 grains of what started as a 168 grain TTSX.

My question is why no one is mentioning the Barnes bullet as an option for loads in this thread. I don't have an axe to grind one way or another but just asking.

In my experience with the Nosler bullets I was never able to get them to shoot accurately in five different 30-06 rifles I was reloading for. At that time I quit trying the Noslers and went back to the Sierra Game King that gave me sub moa groups in all five rifles. One of those rifles was my fathers military surplus Springfield that shot a 3/4" group with an issue two land barrel. The SGKs performed as well as anything we have used to date. I think we have succumbed to the hype about using premium bullets.

I am on a quest to make my RUM shoot itty bitty groups like my 06 did. I will follow this thread to gather any and all opinions, thoughts and recipes.

Thank you to all that post in this thread.
My experience mirrors this as well. We hunt in the "copper only" zone of Central California and are restricted to monolithic bullets. I have been a long time fan of the TSX and now the TTSX and have found them to be very accurate in my various rifles. My only beef is the moderate BC. I have tried to get the E-Tips to shoot but I could not achieve the accuracy I wanted. This was my experience with the Accubonds as well which I desperately wanted to shoot. I have yet to try the the Hornady GMX but hope to do so sometimes soon. I have settled on the 168g TTSX exiting muzzle at 3350 in a 300 RUM. This speed also gives us the advantage of using point blank range calculations and letting me hold on hair out to 400 yards plus a little. We are hunting boar so that helps with these critters which seem to be always on the move...I want to try the GS bullets as well. 30-338
 

19elkhunter51

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
154
Now for my admission of ignorance. I have seen multiple references to "GS" bullets. What are "GS" bullets?

Go ahead, I just don't know what they are.:rolleyes:
 

MontanaRifleman

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Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
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Location
South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Now for my admission of ignorance. I have seen multiple references to "GS" bullets. What are "GS" bullets?

Go ahead, I just don't know what they are.:rolleyes:
Their home site...

GS Custom Bullets - Designed in South Africa - Proven on the toughest game on the planet.

The HV hunting Line...

GS CUSTOM BULLETS - HV Bullets

The GS HV 177...

GS CUSTOM BULLETS - Specifications for use

A pic of it in this thread....

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/gs-bullet-antelope-hunting-47760/
 

300R

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Jul 15, 2009
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OZ
Hi, the 180 e-tip behind H-1000 and the 210 berger RL25 worked best in my sendero,also the [email protected](if you can get that velocity)will go side by side with the 300gr 338's to 1500 yards according to the sierra-v6 software.Im having a ruger no 1 built in 300 rum as we speak,just something a little different.
 

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