Another thread of a beginner asking for opinions.

[riverrat13]

I know there is one of these everyday but I am looking for opinions on some of the conclusions I have reached by reading this and many other forums for weeks. I am new to long range shooting (anything over 350 yards) and have no experience reloading. Reloading is something I do plan to begin doing once I begin dialing in what my rifle is likes.

My budget is roughly $2000 - $2500 for an entire setup (optics included). I wanted to set aside $750 minimum for optics so that leaves me in the $1250 - $1750 range for the gun. Obviously that takes me out of the higher end custom builds. With that in mind, it puts me in the factory rifle game, so, I have narrowed it down to 3 calibers. 1) 308 2) 260 Rem 3) 6.5 Creedmoor. I plan to customize the rifle as time goes by and I learn more and more.

I have been looking at the following rifles as a starting point for my beginner set up. I want to have atleast a 24'' barrel. That makes a Tikka CTR out of the question.


1) Remington 700 5r Gen 2 (308 or 260 Rem) - After a trigger replacement ($1300 or so)


2) Sako A7 Long Range (308) - Roughly ($1300)


3) Bergara BMP (6.5 CM) - ($1300)
With it being a new release, I cannot find out much about this rifle. But it is intriguing at that price point to say the least.

Do I seem to be on the right track for a beginner LR Rifle? Any and all opinions are welcome.
Also, I tried to keep it short but failed, so those that read all the way to the bottom... Thanks

 

[PGJPJ]

I might also consider the Savage line. Both the Savage and Remington will be easy to piece together with custom upgrades as time goes by.

 

[el matador]

You're definitely on the right track. I've put together several rifles for friends of mine that had a similar budget. All of them were Remington 5Rs or Senderos. I've done 2 of the 5R Gen 2 .308s and both of them shot well with factory ammo. Here is how we set them up:

Nightforce 20 MOA rail: $60
Seekins Precision rings (same as Vortex Precision Matched), medium or low: $130
Holland's scope level: $60
Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50: $525

These rifles like the Federal GMM ammo. They shoot around 3/4 MOA, which is pretty decent with factory ammo. I think this is typical for these guns - some shoot better, but I haven't heard of any shooting worse. We tried 168 and 175 grain ammo and each rifle preferred one over the other.

There are a few good scopes in your price range. I found good deals on the PST scopes at Euro Optic and Scopelist.

A lot of this is about personal preference. Its nice if you can look at these guns and scopes in person before choosing one. Whatever you decide to get be sure to post some pics.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I know there is one of these everyday but I am looking for opinions on some of the conclusions I have reached by reading this and many other forums for weeks. I am new to long range shooting (anything over 350 yards) and have no experience reloading. Reloading is something I do plan to begin doing once I begin dialing in what my rifle is likes.

My budget is roughly $2000 - $2500 for an entire setup (optics included). I wanted to set aside $750 minimum for optics so that leaves me in the $1250 - $1750 range for the gun. Obviously that takes me out of the higher end custom builds. With that in mind, it puts me in the factory rifle game, so, I have narrowed it down to 3 calibers. 1) 308 2) 260 Rem 3) 6.5 Creedmoor. I plan to customize the rifle as time goes by and I learn more and more.

I have been looking at the following rifles as a starting point for my beginner set up. I want to have atleast a 24'' barrel. That makes a Tikka CTR out of the question.


1) Remington 700 5r Gen 2 (308 or 260 Rem) - After a trigger replacement ($1300 or so)

Do I seem to be on the right track for a beginner LR Rifle? Any and all opinions are welcome.
Also, I tried to keep it short but failed, so those that read all the way to the bottom... Thanks

There's your answer...

And yes, you're right on track for a great rifle. I have 2 of the 5R Milspecs (.308 Win & .300 WinMag). You can't go wrong with the 5R rifles, once you swap the trigger.

I love the .308 Win and the .260 Rem... So it's hard to pick one or the other, but I would have to lean towards the .308 Win, just because it's so easy to load for, and match grade ammo is everywhere and cheap. Hornady match and Hornady TAP is great ammo, and so is the Federal GMM.

I also recommend the Vortex Viper HS-T scopes, an EGW HD 20MOA base, and Seekins Precision 30mm Low rings for your optics setup.

 

[WildRose]

I know there is one of these everyday but I am looking for opinions on some of the conclusions I have reached by reading this and many other forums for weeks. I am new to long range shooting (anything over 350 yards) and have no experience reloading. Reloading is something I do plan to begin doing once I begin dialing in what my rifle is likes.

My budget is roughly $2000 - $2500 for an entire setup (optics included). I wanted to set aside $750 minimum for optics so that leaves me in the $1250 - $1750 range for the gun. Obviously that takes me out of the higher end custom builds. With that in mind, it puts me in the factory rifle game, so, I have narrowed it down to 3 calibers. 1) 308 2) 260 Rem 3) 6.5 Creedmoor. I plan to customize the rifle as time goes by and I learn more and more.

I have been looking at the following rifles as a starting point for my beginner set up. I want to have atleast a 24'' barrel. That makes a Tikka CTR out of the question.


1) Remington 700 5r Gen 2 (308 or 260 Rem) - After a trigger replacement ($1300 or so)


2) Sako A7 Long Range (308) - Roughly ($1300)


3) Bergara BMP (6.5 CM) - ($1300)
With it being a new release, I cannot find out much about this rifle. But it is intriguing at that price point to say the least.

Do I seem to be on the right track for a beginner LR Rifle? Any and all opinions are welcome.
Also, I tried to keep it short but failed, so those that read all the way to the bottom... Thanks

I have your number one, the Gen 2 and it's worth every penny. All I did was bed the recoil lug area and adjust the factory trigger and it shoots well better than I can. About 2 hours ago we were busting rocks with it at 500 in a 20mph cross wind shooting off of the hood of my truck.

 

[WildRose]

There's your answer...

And yes, you're right on track for a great rifle. I have 2 of the 5R Milspecs (.308 Win & .300 WinMag). You can't go wrong with the 5R rifles, once you swap the trigger.

I love the .308 Win and the .260 Rem... So it's hard to pick one or the other, but I would have to lean towards the .308 Win, just because it's so easy to load for, and match grade ammo is everywhere and cheap. Hornady match and Hornady TAP is great ammo, and so is the Federal GMM.

I also recommend the Vortex Viper HS-T scopes, an EGW HD 20MOA base, and Seekins Precision 30mm Low rings for your optics setup.

.308 is good, but I really like the flat shooting of the .260 Rem especially from the Gen 2.

 

[MudRunner2005]

.308 is good, but I really like the flat shooting of the .260 Rem especially from the Gen 2.

Trust me, if had found employment by now, I would have ordered the Gen2 .260 already to have a good rounded-out collection of three 5R's...But that has been an unfortunate turn of events. Maybe soon.

I love the .260 Rem, but to me, growing up aspiring to be a USMC sniper, and idolizing guys like Chuck Mawhinney and Carlos Hathcock, there has always been something iconic to me about the .308 Win. It has always, and will always be one of my all-time favorite cartridges. And back 5-6 years ago when I first started teaching myself reloading it was the easiest cartridge I had to dial-in. It seemed like every random load I came up with shot lights-out. And to this day, it has still been the easiest of my rifles to dial-in with new loads.

So, for someone just getting into reloading and long range shooting, 9/10 times I will recommend the 5R in .308 Win. (with a trigger swap, of course).

 

[gohring3006]

I'm putting in my opinion...
Savage longrange Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor SWFA 3-15x42 scope.
That leaves you enough money for some reloading equipment.

 

[riverrat13]

On the 308 vs 260 debate.

The general consensus is that the 260 is the superior caliber past 800 or so yards. The 260 is able to travel farther before reaching trans-sonic speeds, causing the bullet to behave erratically. Being honest with myself, I know that I am a long ways away from being an 800+ yard marksmen. With that said, the 308 appears to be the consensus beginner cartridge. 1) The inadequacies of the 308 are often stated as a benefit for the beginner. For instance, the 308 is more affected by wind, therefor helping me in my learning process of how to read and calculate windage. 2) Like stated earlier the 308 is a more reload friendly caliber. 3) The 308, being a NATO round, is here to stay and is one of the most accessible and used calibers worldwide. 4) Barrel life of a 308 is roughly 2x that of a 260 barrel.

That is my understanding of the 308 vs 260. Currently I am leaning 260 just because of its ballistic superiority but I don't want to go 260 rem and have it hinder my growth as a marksmen.

Hope that makes since... Thanks for all the input so far!

 

[MudRunner2005]

On the 308 vs 260 debate.

The general consensus is that the 260 is the superior caliber past 800 or so yards. The 260 is able to travel farther before reaching trans-sonic speeds, causing the bullet to behave erratically. Being honest with myself, I know that I am a long ways away from being an 800+ yard marksmen. With that said, the 308 appears to be the consensus beginner cartridge. 1) The inadequacies of the 308 are often stated as a benefit for the beginner. For instance, the 308 is more affected by wind, therefor helping me in my learning process of how to read and calculate windage. 2) Like stated earlier the 308 is a more reload friendly caliber. 3) The 308, being a NATO round, is here to stay and is one of the most accessible and used calibers worldwide. 4) Barrel life of a 308 is roughly 2x that of a 260 barrel.

That is my understanding of the 308 vs 260. Currently I am leaning 260 just because of its ballistic superiority but I don't want to go 260 rem and have it hinder my growth as a marksmen.

Hope that makes since... Thanks for all the input so far!

The 6.5mm supporters will always sit there and tell you that the .308 is "slow" and "old and outdated". But in all honesty, beyond 800, they would most likely be a wash. And the .308 Might actually have the advantage if you put into consideration the heavy high-BC long range bullets such as the Berger 215 Hybrid. The ballistics for the .308 can be quite impressive despite the much slower muzzle velocity.

The lighter 140 grain bullets of the .260 will slow down faster than the heavier bullets (185-215 grains) of the .308 Win. Despite muzzle velocity differences, the heavier higher BC .30 caliber bullet will retain more kinetic energy down range.

There are a lot of idiots in local shops and on the interwebz that don't know what they're talking about. I've met and talked to a lot of them over the years. When it comes to meeting random folks in a gun store, believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see. A lot of it's made-up, exaggerated, hearsay, and 5th-hand knowledge from somebody's brother's sister's cousins' husband's former roommate... Lots and lots of internet forums are the same way.

This forum is full of intelligent and experienced shooters, and it is packed-full of knowledge. If you want to know facts, this is the place to come.

That all being said, I'm curious to know what these "inadequacies" of the .308 Win might be? And there is no ballistic superiority of the .260 Rem...They are equally formidable cartridges, just different.

 

[riverrat13]

The 6.5mm supporters will always sit there and tell you that the .308 is "slow" and "old and outdated". But in all honesty, beyond 800, they would most likely be a wash. And the .308 Might actually have the advantage if you put into consideration the heavy high-BC long range bullets such as the Berger 215 Hybrid. The ballistics for the .308 can be quite impressive despite the much slower muzzle velocity.

The lighter 140 grain bullets of the .260 will slow down faster than the heavier bullets (185-215 grains) of the .308 Win. Despite muzzle velocity differences, the heavier higher BC .30 caliber bullet will retain more kinetic energy down range.

There are a lot of idiots in local shops and on the interwebz that don't know what they're talking about. I've met and talked to a lot of them over the years. When it comes to meeting random folks in a gun store, believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see. A lot of it's made-up, exaggerated, hearsay, and 5th-hand knowledge from somebody's brother's sister's cousins' husband's former roommate... Lots and lots of internet forums are the same way.

This forum is full of intelligent and experienced shooters, and it is packed-full of knowledge. If you want to know facts, this is the place to come.

That all being said, I'm curious to know what these "inadequacies" of the .308 Win might be? And there is no ballistic superiority of the .260 Rem...They are equally formidable cartridges, just different.

I will be the first to admit that the information I stated above came from other forums, guns shops, paid for articles, and 5th hand information. I have shot both 308 and 260 rem but neither over 400 yards. So my own first hand knowledge is quite minimal.

That comment was meant to be phrased as a question to develop a response such as yours. Thank you for the correction.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I will be the first to admit that the information I stated above came from other forums, guns shops, paid for articles, and 5th hand information. I have shot both 308 and 260 rem but neither over 400 yards. So my own first hand knowledge is quite minimal.

That comment was meant to be phrased as a question to develop a response such as yours. Thank you for the correction.

No problem man. That's what these forums are for, and this is one of the most honest and knowledgeable ones I've been a part of. That's why I stick around. Plus, the guys on here are all nice and ready to help folks.

Also, some of my responses can come off as "harsh" or "short" and that's not how they're intended. I just type like I talk, and so it sometimes might seem like I'm being rude or brutish, but it's just the lack of emotional transfer you get when reading text versus having a face-to-face conversation.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Not trying to derail the thread here, but regarding 260 vs 308 why not go with less recoil for equal or better performance over extended distance of 800+ yards. I've ran these numbers yes the 308 with a 208 eld or a 215 vld is very impressive. But a 260 pushing a 147 eld at 2850 is even more so! Or the new nosler rdf 140. If the bc is true that's a heck of a bullet. I must admit I'm not a 30 cal man....I like my 6.5s and 7mms

As for the rifle I've had outstanding luck with savages. Yes they are ugly and the action definitely isn't a remmy 700 but guess what.... they shoot. I don't however, believe I've heard one bad report about the Remington 5r rifles. I've considered them myself but nothing in a chambering I'm looking for.

I say pick a 260/6.5cm and run with it. Shoot it, learn it, and don't look back.

 

[riverrat13]

No problem man. That's what these forums are for, and this is one of the most honest and knowledgeable ones I've been a part of. That's why I stick around. Plus, the guys on here are all nice and ready to help folks.

Also, some of my responses can come off as "harsh" or "short" and that's not how they're intended. I just type like I talk, and so it sometimes might seem like I'm being rude or brutish, but it's just the lack of emotional transfer you get when reading text versus having a face-to-face conversation.

No problem at all.. I can write the same way sometimes. I am just here to soak it all in and learn. So I appreciate any response. "Harsh" or not. I'd much rather be corrected than continue thinking something incorrectly.