Annealing 338 Lupua and 6.5 Creedmoor Brass

"Tipping brass into cold water or allowing it to slow cool makes no difference for annealing or enlarging crystalline structure reduced in size by work hardening. The goal is to eliminate brass spring back for uniform neck tension."
I like to tip the hot necked cases over into cold water so I can observe the auditory effect of hearing them sizzle. A tipped over case indicates that case has been annealed so that case will not undergo a 2nd annealing process.

Plumber's MAP gas burns hotter than propane, like MAP gas 3600 F when mixed with air.
 
"Tipping brass into cold water or allowing it to slow cool makes no difference for annealing or enlarging crystalline structure reduced in size by work hardening. The goal is to eliminate brass spring back for uniform neck tension."
I like to tip the hot necked cases over into cold water so I can observe the auditory effect of hearing them sizzle. A tipped over case indicates that case has been annealed so that case will not undergo a 2nd annealing process.

Plumber's MAP gas burns hotter than propane, like MAP gas 3600 F when mixed with air.
"Loupy flame tip cost less than $40 (real cheap)." Mr. Hugnot, Do you have a design sketch for this encircling propane brass heater? Quite clever and has me nearly hooked! Jasbo
 
opinions on the net are all over the place but here are a few responses from shooting/reloading forums:
You can cool it as slowly or as quickly as you like and it won't matter. The myth that you need to quench brass comes from the requirement to do so when heat treating some kinds of steel.

Brass CAN be quenched (better called "cooled very quickly") without losing the affects of the softening that comes from annealing the case mouths. Rapid cooling does NOTHING to the annealed soft brass - it stays soft.

Unlike steel, which will be made harder when it is cooled rapidly, brass is virtually unaffected when it is rapidly cooled. Annealing brass and suddenly quenching it in water will have no measurable effect on the brass. Annealing–Basic Concepts by Jim Harris and Ken Light
Full article on Accurate Shooter.com :
That's not a well written article is it. Debunks with no evidence 2 forms of annealing offered up here in the forum. I was hoping someone had the science behind it, like Rockwell testing, or how softening the brass improves neck tension.
 
From


"

Section snippets

Experimental procedure

The material used in this study is 70/30 brass, which is typically representative of low SFE alloys (γsf = 7 mJ/m2). The samples were cut from a cold-rolled and annealed sheet, 3 mm thick and with an average grain size of 20 μm, and then were annealed for 2 h at a temperature of 650 °C in a 10−5 mbar vacuum, in order to obtain a structure with a mean grain size of about 100 μm. Annealed samples were deformed in pure rolling and tension, in order to study the microstructural features developed during


Shows grain size was increased from 20um to 100 um upon annealing

Then




"Annealing is generally done at a temperature above half the melting temperature of the material. For these samples of alpha brass, the melting point is about 900C and annealing was done at 500C. The annealing process actually causes new, strain-free grains to form—these grains grow and when fully grown the defective material is consumed and hardness value will decrease to the original. In slide 14, we see that a 15 minute anneal reduces the hardness while modifying the microstructure, probably producing here a mixture of new strain free grains with remnants of the old, harder grains. The microstructure change from the annealing process is shown in slide 15 for the 60% CW condition. Full annealing provides a microstructure with more equiaxed grains (less elongation) and the expected reduced HV of 91, as seen in slide 17."
and

"Rolling causes the grains to elongate and introduces defects in the grains called "dislocations" which make it more difficult for the atoms to slide over one another during deformation, thus increasing strength and hardness. Think about the work required to squeeze a piece of brass between a set of rollers reducing the original thickness of the brass piece (slide 9). Internal strain in the crystalline lattice is imparted through this work that squeezes the crystalline grains in the brass. Rolling also causes an increase in the number of grain boundaries, which also impedes atom sliding and increases strength. The "cold rolling" process is considered a strain-hardening process. This can be seen in the sequence of slides with increasing degrees of rolling, slides 11 – 13. In this case, the sample seems to have reached its maximum hardness at 40% rolling while the microstructure continues to be modified with increased rolling, as noted in slide 13."

Finally

The "spring back" situation affects neck tension.

As brass strength increases by work hardening (repetitive neck sizing), the ability of brass necks to resist deformation increases & this makes for "spring back" (brass elastic limit increased). Neck tension uniformity is then affected because the "spring back" (won't assume sized dimensions) prevents the brass cartridge necks from uniformly gripping bullets, like seen by variations in force required to seat bullets.

The Lee factory crimp die squashes brass necks within a small area near the end of neck by exceeding the elastic limit of the brass thus improving neck tension uniformity.

It don't make no difference if the hot brass necks are submerged in ice water or allowed to cool slow.

Looking and evaluating brass grain size may be done using an electron microscope, cost just under $300,000. Would Midway consider adding this to their inventory?
 
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Why doesnt he give out the information on where to buy the loop torch tip ? We would like to know! Please.
Please excuse the delay, he will reply soon. He is real old & has a jammed packed schedule & likes to have fun.

In the event the loop torch tip is no longer for sale on-line it could be made with items available at your local/friendly hardware store like brass fittings, copper tubing, solder, & Bernz O Matic propane torch, 1/16 twist drill, vise, & $20 tubing bending tool. Make more than one to compensate for tool costs.

He will provide a detailed close-up photo of the subject item that will show all parts.
 
Please excuse the delay, he will reply soon. He is real old & has a jammed packed schedule & likes to have fun.

In the event the loop torch tip is no longer for sale on-line it could be made with items available at your local/friendly hardware store like brass fittings, copper tubing, solder, & Bernz O Matic propane torch, 1/16 twist drill, vise, & $20 tubing bending tool. Make more than one to compensate for tool costs.

He will provide a detailed close-up photo of the subject item that will show all parts.
Thank you!!
 
Not homemade but could be.



"ANNEAL YOUR BRASS FOR ACCURACY! We at The Woodchuck Den, Inc. have found that annealing has many benefits related to accuracy. Concentricity and bullet seating tension are just two major improvements that you can not afford to ignore. We have in stock the proper annealing tip or unit to anneal correctly. $53.95 Call!!"

catalog, page 6

Inflation - I paid about $40

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